Is the definition of space relative ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of space, its definition, and its relationship to the universe. Participants explore concepts related to the expansion of the universe, the existence of multiple universes, and the implications of these ideas on our understanding of space and time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions what space is expanding into if it did not exist prior to the universe's expansion, suggesting a need for clarity on this concept.
  • Another participant argues that there is no need to "make room" for the universe and posits that the universe itself is space, challenging the notion of an external space to expand into.
  • Some participants propose the idea of multiple universes separated by vast distances, while others contend that this conflicts with the definitions of "universe" and "space."
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of "falling through space," with one participant clarifying that they refer to a universal sense of motion rather than a localized experience.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of human intuition in understanding space and time, with suggestions that mathematical solutions may provide better insights.
  • One participant expresses difficulty in reconciling their understanding of space with the idea of being contained within a larger space, suggesting that this limits comprehension of broader cosmic processes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of space and the universe, with no consensus reached on the definitions or implications of these concepts. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the topic, highlighting the dependence on definitions and the challenges of applying everyday concepts to cosmic phenomena.

genphis
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I have just finished reading stuart clark's book 'The Universe' and i find myself pondering the question of space its possible infinite size,shape, and its relation to our universe.
a) if space did not exist before our universe's expansion. What are we expanding into and what are we pushing back to make room for our universe?
b) it seems to me inevitable that there are a multitude of universes which are separated from ours via vast incomprehensible distances.
c) And do these universes and ours reside in a megaverse?

d) i am troubled that we accept that we are falling through space.but is the space we fall through the same space our universe exist in ?



sorry to ramble
 
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What are we expanding into and what are we pushing back to make room for our universe?
Nothing. We don't need to "make room", and there is no "outside" to push back / expand into.

it seems to me inevitable that there are a multitude of universes which are separated from ours via vast incomprehensible distances.
This cannot work with the usual definitions of "universe" - there is no distance without space, and there is no space without universe.

And do these universes and ours reside in a megaverse?
Pure speculation and/or depends on the definition.

i am troubled that we accept that we are falling through space
What do you mean with "falling through space"? I am standing on earth.
but is the space we fall through the same space our universe exist in ?
Our universe does not exist in some space, our universe IS space (plus objects in that space).
 
thanks for reply, it was my understanding that the Earth was hurtling in orbit approximately 66,000 mph around the sun, which in turn is orbiting with among many celestial objects the centre of our galaxy possibly a super massive black hole, in addition to this our galaxy is also in an orbiting spiral. i meant falling in a universal sense not localised to my position on the earth. if we use our own experience of space and time as a measure we will not learn much about the universe. we fall around the curvatures in space created by matter warping the fabric of space-time.
if something expands, there must be room for the expansion,if not pressure will build and hey presto big bang
 
genphis said:
if something expands, there must be room for the expansion,if not pressure will build and hey presto big bang

Intuition is holding you back, you have to understand it terms of solutions to equations and not in everyday concepts like 3 dimensions. They don't really apply here.

EDIT: in fact, you said it yourself:
if we use our own experience of space and time as a measure we will not learn much about the universe
 
point taken d3mm thanks... i struggle with the fact that if we were in a box we would be free to move around within that space. but if our box was in another box, our box would be the only space we experience. yet that experience would limit our ability to understand the processes really at work in the scheme of things...
 

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