Is the Lorentz group non-compact?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the non-compactness of the Lorentz group and its connected components. Participants explore mathematical proofs and concepts related to the topology of the Lorentz group, specifically focusing on the structure of its matrices and the implications of closedness and boundedness in relation to compactness.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests showing that the Lorentz group is non-compact by analyzing the relation between the elements of its 4x4 matrices and associating it with a known topological space.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of explicitly stating the problem more formally to aid in the discussion.
  • A hint is provided to consider the orbit of some vector as part of the analysis.
  • Some participants discuss the need to demonstrate closedness and boundedness to establish non-compactness, referencing Heine-Borel's theorem.
  • One participant presents a mathematical proof using the 2-dimensional Lorentz group SO(1,1) and a sequence of unbounded elements to illustrate non-compactness.
  • Another participant notes that the Lorentz group can be expressed as a product of non-compact and compact spaces, further supporting the claim of non-compactness.
  • There is a mention of the implications of projection maps in relation to compactness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the non-compactness of the Lorentz group, but there are varying approaches and proofs presented. The discussion remains open with multiple perspectives on how to demonstrate this property.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the dimensionality of the space involved and the complexity of the proofs. There are also references to specific mathematical concepts that may require further clarification.

Silviu
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Hello! I need to show that Lorentz Group is non compact, but has 4 connected components. The way I was thinking to do it is to write the relation between the elements of the 4x4 matrices and based on that, associated it with a known topological space, based on the determinant and the value of the (0,0). However if I am not wrong it would be a 16 dimensional space, so I kinda got scared. I assume there is an easier way. Can someone help me a bit, give send me a link with the proof? Thank you!
 
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If you were to explicitly state the problem - a little more formally please - it might help. I do not know an answer, but fine tuning the question always seems to help. Thanks.
 
Hint: Consider the orbit of some vector.
 
I assume you see a matrix as an element of ## \mathbb R^{n^2} ##? If so, then you just need to show closedness and boundedness. Otherwise, please explain.
 
Silviu said:
Hello! I need to show that Lorentz Group is non compact

WWGD said:
I assume you see a matrix as an element of ## \mathbb R^{n^2} ##? If so, then you just need to show closedness and boundedness. Otherwise, please explain.

So (by Heine-Borel) a subset of ## \mathbb R^{16} ## that is not(closed and bounded) needs to be found, e.g., the set of boosts in the x direction.
 
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George Jones said:
So (by Heine-Borel) a subset of ## \mathbb R^{16} ## that is not(closed and bounded) needs to be found, e.g., the set of boosts in the x direction.
And notice, since projection operator is continuous, if subset is compact, its projection to any coordinate must also be compact -- closed and bounded.
 
Silviu said:
Hello! I need to show that Lorentz Group is non compact, but has 4 connected components. The way I was thinking to do it is to write the relation between the elements of the 4x4 matrices and based on that, associated it with a known topological space, based on the determinant and the value of the (0,0). However if I am not wrong it would be a 16 dimensional space, so I kinda got scared. I assume there is an easier way. Can someone help me a bit, give send me a link with the proof? Thank you!
A Lie group is called compact if it is compact as a manifold. For example, SU(2) is compact because (topologically) it can be identified with the 3-sphere S^{3} which is compact. The Lorentz group SO(1,3) is not compact because it can “essentially” be written as a product of the non-compact space (of boosts) \mathbb{R}^{3} with the compact space (of rotations) S^{3}: SO(1,3) \cong SL(2 , \mathbb{C}) / \mathbb{Z}_{2} \cong \mathbb{R}^{3} \times S^{3} / \mathbb{Z}_{2} \ .

The proper mathematical proof goes as follow: Recall that a subset \mathcal{U} of \mathbb{R}^{n} is compact if and only if, it is closed and bounded, i.e., if and only if, for every sequence a_{m} \in \mathcal{U} \subset \mathbb{R}^{n}, there exists a subsequence which converges to some a \in \mathcal{U}. For simplicity, consider the 2-dimensional Lorentz group SO(1,1). Define a sequence of elements \Lambda_{m} \in SO(1,1) by \Lambda_{m} = \begin{pmatrix} \cosh (m) & \sinh (m) \\ \sinh (m) & \cosh (m) \end{pmatrix} \ . Now, since the components of \Lambda_{m} are unbounded, it follows that \Lambda_{m} cannot have convergent subsequence. Thus, SO(1,1) is a non-compact Lie group.
 
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samalkhaiat said:
A Lie group is called compact if it is compact as a manifold. For example, SU(2) is compact because (topologically) it can be identified with the 3-sphere S^{3} which is compact. The Lorentz group SO(1,3) is not compact because it can “essentially” be written as a product of the non-compact space (of boosts) \mathbb{R}^{3} with the compact space (of rotations) S^{3}: SO(1,3) \cong SL(2 , \mathbb{C}) / \mathbb{Z}_{2} \cong \mathbb{R}^{3} \times S^{3} / \mathbb{Z}_{2} \ .

The proper mathematical proof goes as follow: Recall that a subset \mathcal{U} of \mathbb{R}^{n} is compact if and only if, it is closed and bounded, i.e., if and only if, for every sequence a_{m} \in \mathcal{U} \subset \mathbb{R}^{n}, there exists a subsequence which converges to some a \in \mathcal{U}. For simplicity, consider the 2-dimensional Lorentz group SO(1,1). Define a sequence of elements \Lambda_{m} \in SO(1,1) by \Lambda_{m} = \begin{pmatrix} \cosh (m) & \sinh (m) \\ \sinh (m) & \cosh (m) \end{pmatrix} \ . Now, since the components of \Lambda_{m} are unbounded, it follows that \Lambda_{m} cannot have convergent subsequence. Thus, SO(1,1) is a non-compact Lie group.
Nice. You can also argue that if the product ## \mathbb R^3 \times \mathbb Z/2 ## were compact, then, using the projection map ( given it is continuous), projection onto first component ## \mathbb R^3 ## would also be compact.
 

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