Is there a better way than L'Hôpital's rule?

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    L'hopital's rule
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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on alternative methods to L'Hôpital's rule for evaluating a limit involving arcsine functions and their differences as a variable approaches infinity. Participants explore various mathematical approaches, including rewriting expressions and using Taylor expansions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express that L'Hôpital's rule complicates the problem and seek better methods.
  • One participant suggests rewriting the expressions for the angles and their sine values using right triangles and double-angle formulas.
  • A Taylor expansion is proposed as a more advanced alternative to L'Hôpital's rule, with specific expansions provided for the angles and sine functions.
  • Another participant doubts that the proposed method will lead to the expected solution of $\frac{\sqrt{2}}{3}(s^{3/2} - (s-c)^{3/2})$.
  • One participant asserts that their method is guaranteed to work and is more general than L'Hôpital's rule.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the effectiveness of the proposed methods compared to L'Hôpital's rule, and there are differing opinions on whether the alternative approaches will yield the correct solution.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the behavior of the functions as the variable approaches infinity and the applicability of Taylor expansions in this context.

Dustinsfl
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l'hospital's rule here makes it way more complicated. Is there a better method?

$\alpha = 2\arcsin\left(\sqrt{\frac{s}{2a}}\right)$
$\beta = 2\arcsin\left(\sqrt{\frac{s-c}{2a}}\right)$

$$
\lim_{a\to\infty}\left[a^{3/2}(\alpha - \beta -(\sin(\alpha) - \sin(\beta))\right]
$$
 
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Re: Is there better a way than L'Hôpital's rule?

dwsmith said:
l'hospital's rule here makes it way more complicated. Is there a better method?

$\alpha = 2\arcsin\left(\sqrt{\frac{s}{2a}}\right)$
$\beta = 2\arcsin\left(\sqrt{\frac{s-c}{2a}}\right)$

$$
\lim_{a\to\infty}\left[a^{3/2}(\alpha - \beta -(\sin(\alpha) - \sin(\beta))\right]
$$

First I would rewrite the expressions for $\alpha, \beta, \sin \alpha, \sin \beta$.
The method to do so, is to draw a right triangle with sides that match your angles.
Combine that with the double-angle-formulas.

You'll get for instance:
$$\quad \alpha = \arccos\left(1-\frac s a\right) \\
\quad \alpha = \arcsin\left(\sqrt{\frac {2as -s^2}{a^2}}\right) \\
\quad \sin \alpha = \sqrt{\frac {2as -s^2}{a^2}}$$

The next step that springs to mind is a Taylor expansion, which is basically a more advanced form of l'Hôpital's rule.
Let's define $A=\sqrt{\dfrac {2as -s^2}{a^2}}$, then for instance, since $\dfrac s a \ll 1$ (near the limit), we have:
$$\quad \alpha = \arcsin(A) = A + \frac {A^3}{6} + \frac{3A^5}{40} + ... \\
\quad \sin \alpha = \sqrt{\frac {2s}{a}}\sqrt{1 - \frac{s}{2a}} = \sqrt{\frac {2s}{a}} \left(1 - \frac 1 2 \cdot \frac{s}{2a} + ...\right)$$
 
Last edited:
Re: Is there better a way than L'Hôpital's rule?

I like Serena said:
First I would rewrite the expressions for $\alpha, \beta, \sin \alpha, \sin \beta$.
The method to do so, is to draw a right triangle with sides that match your angles.
Combine that with the double-angle-formulas.

You'll get for instance:
$$\quad \alpha = \arccos\left(1-\frac s a\right) \\
\quad \alpha = \arcsin\left(\sqrt{\frac {2as -s^2}{a^2}}\right) \\
\quad \sin \alpha = \sqrt{\frac {2as -s^2}{a^2}}$$

The next step that springs to mind is a Taylor expansion, which is basically a more advanced form of l'Hôpital's rule.
Let's define $A=\sqrt{\dfrac {2as -s^2}{a^2}}$, then for instance, since $\dfrac s a \ll 1$ (near the limit), we have:
$$\quad \alpha = \arcsin(A) = A + \frac {A^3}{6} + \frac{3A^5}{40} + ... \\
\quad \sin \alpha = \sqrt{\frac {2s}{a}}\sqrt{1 - \frac{s}{2a}} = \sqrt{\frac {2s}{a}} \left(1 - \frac 1 2 \cdot \frac{s}{2a} + ...\right)$$

I don't think that will arrive at the solution of $\frac{\sqrt{2}}{3}(s^{3/2} - (s-c)^{3/2})$ though.
 
Re: Is there better a way than L'Hôpital's rule?

dwsmith said:
I don't think that will arrive at the solution of $\frac{\sqrt{2}}{3}(s^{3/2} - (s-c)^{3/2})$ though.

The method I described is guaranteed to work.
Moreover, it is more general than l'Hôpital.
 

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