Is There a Mistake in Proving 1 = -1 with Square Roots?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical proof that claims to show 1 = -1 using square roots. Participants analyze the steps taken in the proof, questioning the validity of taking square roots of negative numbers and the implications of using imaginary numbers in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a sequence of algebraic manipulations leading to the conclusion that 1 = -1, questioning where the mistake lies.
  • Another participant identifies a mistake in the manipulation, stating that the property √(a/b) = √a / √b requires a and b to be positive.
  • Some participants emphasize that square roots of negative numbers are ill-defined, suggesting this is a critical error in the proof.
  • There is a question raised about the inconsistency of allowing imaginary numbers in some contexts but not in this proof.
  • One participant references a resource that discusses the conditions under which the square root property holds, noting the need for careful treatment of signs when dealing with square roots.
  • Another participant explains that the lack of an order for complex numbers complicates the definition of square roots, arguing that treating square roots as uniquely defined numbers is incorrect.
  • One participant suggests that the inclusion of a ± symbol when taking square roots is necessary, and questions the background knowledge of the original poster (OP) regarding algebra and complex numbers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the validity of the original proof and the treatment of square roots of negative numbers. Multiple competing views remain regarding the handling of imaginary numbers and the conditions under which square root properties apply.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the original proof, particularly regarding the assumptions made about the square root properties and the treatment of complex numbers. There is also uncertainty about the OP's level of understanding and the context of their question.

2sin54
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1/(-1) = -1

Take the square root of both sides:

√(1/(-1)) = √(-1) =>

√1 / √(-1) = √(-1)

1 / i = i | * i

1 = i^2

1 = -1

Where's the mistake?
 
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Gytax said:
1/(-1) = -1

Take the square root of both sides:

√(1/(-1)) = √(-1) =>

√1 / √(-1) = √(-1)
Mistake is above, on the left side. √(a/b) = √a / √b requires that a >= 0 and b > 0.
Gytax said:
1 / i = i | * i

1 = i^2

1 = -1

Where's the mistake?
 
You can only take the square roots of positive numbers. Square roots of negative numbers are ill-defined. (precisely to prohibit reasoning like this)
 
So why exactly in this case imaginary numbers aren't allowed and elsewhere they are?
 
Gytax said:
1/(-1) = -1

√1 / √(-1) = √(-1)

Where's the mistake?

This is not true

but the true is :

275913841.jpg
 
Gytax said:
So why exactly in this case imaginary numbers aren't allowed and elsewhere they are?
Every number has two square roots. For real numbers, we can define the square root (or 1/2 power) to be the positive root. However, there is no order for the complex numbers that makes it an ordered field. In particular, that means we cannot distinguish between "positive" and "negative" roots for complex numbers. Because of that, your error was writing "take the square root" and treating it as if it were a uniquely defined number.

That is also why "defining" i to be "[itex]\sqrt{-1}[/itex]" or "the number whose square is -1" are technically wrong. They do not distinguish between the two possible roots. A more valid approach is to define the complex numbers as pairs of real numbers, (a, b), and then define addition by (a, b)+ (c, d)= (a+ c, b+ d) and define multplication by (a, b)(c, d)= (ac- bd, ad+ bc). Then we can identify every real number a with the complex number (a, 0) and define i to be (0, 1). Then, (0, 1)(0, 1)= (0*0- 1*1, 0*1+ 1*0)= (-1, 0) so that [itex]i^2= -1[/itex]. Of course, [itex](-i)^2= (0, -1)^2= (-1, 0)[/itex] also but now we can distinguish between i= (0, 1) and -i= (0, -1).
 
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All of that is too complicated,
anytime one takes square root of both sides of an equation,
one must include a +- symbol on one side of the equation.
Then choose the + or - so the answer makes sense.

Apply, Ockham's razor, to the various answers.

Of course we haven't ascertained where the OP is coming from. High school algebra? First week of a course on complex numbers?

Finally, unfortunately, I'm not sure mathfriend is following the OP's logic.
 

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