Is there a relationship between the harmonic mean and the standard deviation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between the harmonic mean (HM) and the standard deviation (σ), particularly in the context of sequences of numbers and their distributions. Participants examine how changes in the values of a sequence affect the HM and consider whether fluctuations in values correlate with the HM.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a thought experiment with a sequence of numbers, noting that as the values become more extreme, the HM decreases while the arithmetic mean (AM) remains constant. They suggest that the HM is more sensitive to lower values.
  • The same participant questions whether there is a mathematical relationship between the HM and the standard deviation, proposing that higher fluctuations could lead to a lower HM.
  • Another participant introduces a Normal distribution and asks for an approximate expression for the HM in terms of the mean (μ) and variance (σ²), indicating a desire to derive a relationship between HM and σ.
  • A subsequent post seeks clarification on the term "E" used in the context of the Normal distribution, which is identified as the expectation (mean) of the distribution.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the relevance of proving HM = 1/E(1/x), emphasizing their interest in the relationship between HM and σ rather than HM and E.
  • Another participant reiterates the request to derive an expression for HM in terms of μ and σ, indicating a focus on mathematical derivation rather than proof of definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between HM and standard deviation, with some focusing on mathematical derivations while others emphasize conceptual understanding. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific relationship between HM and σ.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the expectation (E) remains constant while the HM decreases, highlighting a potential disconnect between these measures. The discussion involves assumptions about distributions and the behavior of means under varying conditions.

Feynstein100
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I was doing a thought experiment on the harmonic mean. Let's say we have a sequence of 4 numbers:

100, 110, 90, 100

The arithmetic mean (AM) of this sequence is 100 but the harmonic mean (HM) is 99.4975.
Let's imagine that the initial and final values remain constant but the middle ones get more and more extreme.

100, 120, 80, 100

The AM is still 100 but the HM is now 97.9592

100, 130, 70, 100

AM = 100, HM = 95.2880

and so on

I think I understand why this happens. The AM is symmetric, if you will. So an equal movement above the mean will cancel out an equal movement below it. However, the HM is more skewed toward the lowest value in the sequence. As such, it only takes one low value to bring the HM down. And with each step, we have a lower minimum and thus a lower HM. This is basically a crude verbal proof. Is there a more rigorous, mathematical one?

I'm also interested to know if there's a relationship between the HM and the fluctuation (I guess the arithmetic standard deviation is a good way to represent this). I mean, there has to be, as higher fluctuations mean higher likelihood of lower values and thus a lower HM, right?

Basically, HM = f(σ)?
 
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Imagine a variable x with a distribution N(μ,σ2), i.e. a Normal distribution with mean μ and variance σ2. Think of x as μ + δ where δ = N(0,σ2), and (for simplicity) σ << μ. Can you derive an (approximate) expression for HM, where HM = 1/E(1/x)?
 
mjc123 said:
Imagine a variable x with a distribution N(μ,σ2), i.e. a Normal distribution with mean μ and variance σ2. Think of x as μ + δ where δ = N(0,σ2), and (for simplicity) σ << μ. Can you derive an (approximate) expression for HM, where HM = 1/E(1/x)?
Sounds interesting. But what exactly is E in this case? 😅
 
The expectation (mean of the distribution).
 
mjc123 said:
The expectation (mean of the distribution).
Ah okay but isn't that literally the definition of the harmonic mean? Not sure what we'd get by proving it. I mean, I'm trying to find a relationship between HM and σ, not HM and E.

Also, in the example, the E remained constant whereas the HM kept decreasing, exactly illustrating my point. Although, oh wait. That was the AM, not E(1/x). My bad 😅
 
I wasn't asking you to prove HM = 1/E(1/x), but to use that definition to derive an expression for HM in terms of μ and σ.
 

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