Is there a type of current other than AC and DC

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the classification of electrical current, specifically whether there are types of current beyond the conventional categories of direct current (DC) and alternating current (AC). Participants explore various forms of current waveforms and their characteristics, including non-standard shapes and behaviors.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that current can take on any functional form, implying that the terms DC and AC may not encompass all possibilities.
  • One participant proposes the idea of "non-reversing" and "reversing" currents as informal classifications for currents that deviate from ideal DC and AC.
  • Another participant notes that the current in an RC circuit does not fit neatly into the categories of DC or AC, as it is time-dependent.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of DC, with some arguing that it refers to unidirectional flow rather than constant current, while others emphasize that pure DC is a mathematical abstraction.
  • Participants mention that terms like "white noise" could describe currents that change direction randomly, suggesting a need for broader terminology.
  • Concerns are raised about the arbitrary nature of categorizing currents, with some arguing that such classifications can hinder understanding.
  • There is a debate over the definition of "DC component," with references to time-varying DC components and their implications in different engineering contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that there is no standard terminology for currents outside of AC and DC, but multiple competing views remain regarding the definitions and implications of these terms. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the classification of various current types.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of consensus on definitions of DC and AC, the dependence on specific contexts in engineering, and the unresolved nature of how to categorize non-standard current waveforms.

dilshada shabnam
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well we have learned in school there are two types of current DC whichs direct and AC where the curve change dir alternately. so what if the the graph is not a sine curve or a cos curve. is there any other name for such types of current?
 
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dilshada shabnam said:
well we have learned in school there are two types of current DC whichs direct and AC where the curve change dir alternately. so what if the the graph is not a sine curve or a cos curve. is there any other name for such types of current?
No direct current current is perfectly constant, and no alternating current is a perfect sine wave. A current which deviates significantly from the ideal in each case you might call merely non-reversing or reversing, respectively. (I just made those terms up.)
 
There is just "current" ... since i(t) can be any function at all.
The current in an RC circuit (whether charging or discharging) is neither DC nor AC.
Specific names are usually for the shape of the function... but we study sinusoids because we can construct pretty much any real current from a sum of sine waves, so if we know how sine waves work, we can deduce how most any wave will work.
 
Simon Bridge said:
The current in an RC circuit (whether charging or discharging) is neither DC nor AC.

Isn't it DC, as it's in one direction, and exponentially decreasing with time?
 
pixel said:
Isn't it DC, as it's in one direction, and exponentially decreasing with time?
Well done ... how about white noise? It changes direction but randomly.
Can you come up with one?
 
Simon Bridge said:
Well done ... how about white noise? It changes direction but randomly.
Can you come up with one?

In ordinary usage, AC is understood as being a single-frequency sinusoidal voltage and DC is understood as constant voltage. Thus, anything else is neither AC nor DC, although if it is reasonably close we will describe it as poor-quality AC or noisy DC.
 
Nugatory said:
In ordinary usage, AC is understood as being a single-frequency sinusoidal voltage and DC is understood as constant voltage.

But here on Physics Forums we are not ordinary.:smile:
 
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Isn't this just one of those questions that does nothing but start arguments about arbitrary categorisations?
 
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Jehannum said:
Isn't this just one of those questions that does nothing but start arguments about arbitrary categorisations?
The question in post #1 is whether there is an existing standard terminology here. I think the responders so far are agreed there is not.
 
  • #10
Jehannum said:
Isn't this just one of those questions that does nothing but start arguments about arbitrary categorisations?
Categorising things gets in the way of understanding. Long ago we (in Science) stopped using 'forward / backwards / stopped to describe the motion of an object. We use distance / speed and a sign. Zero speed or distance is all part of the set. We use Vectors to describe things. The maths becomes much more straightforward when you do it that way.
Moreover, pure 'DC' is a mathematical abstraction. There is no source of DC that remains constant over all time. A battery voltage changes as it discharges / charges, as the temperature changes and in the short term (milli and microseconds) as the rate of chemical reaction changes microscopically.
AC and DC are terms used by Electrical Engineers to describe basic characteristics of electrical supply methods.
 
  • #11
sophiecentaur said:
Moreover, pure 'DC' is a mathematical abstraction. There is no source of DC that remains constant over all time.

DC means the current is in one direction only. It does not necessarily imply a constant current. That is the definition of DC and it is not an abstraction; a constant DC current is an abstraction.
 
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  • #12
pixel said:
DC means the current is in one direction only.
If we want to get picky about this, then the term 'Unidirectional' describes current that flows in one direction only. The DC Component of any wave form is the unvarying part.
 
  • #13
sophiecentaur: Granted your definition is the standard one for typically encountered waveforms, but to get even more picky, the following graph is located at DC Component of Asymmetrical Faults, http://myelectrical.com/notes/entryid/134/dc-component-of-asymmetrical-faults , and shows a time-varying DC component.

9XbVRp0nz_9ko7c8XQYuqGfv29fisEETw2BZDbS3v_axPxejyTIO5OmwCOHmPQnxTJMuCKKTIPaWFg=w1280-h800-no.jpg
 
  • #14
pixel said:
sophiecentaur: Granted your definition is the standard one for typically encountered waveforms, but to get even more picky, the following graph is located at DC Component of Asymmetrical Faults, http://myelectrical.com/notes/entryid/134/dc-component-of-asymmetrical-faults , and shows a time-varying DC component.
I accept that your version of "DC component" is in frequent use (Engineers' usage would be the term I would use) but, if it is changing then it has a non zero frequency component. In a waveform such as the one you are showing, there is a clear distinction between the 'wanted' AC waveform and any offset that may occur. Also, of course, there is never a 'DC' value that goes from -∞>t> ∞ (mathematical abstraction) but the context of what 'your' DC means can be different from 'my'DC mean. If You are a 50/60HZ power engineer then your DC timescale could be tens of seconds or more. If I am an RF engineer then my DC timescale could be a microsecond (one screen's worth on a high frequency 'scope).
Look at the spectrum of your signals or my signals and there is only one DC term ( at 0Hz) but there will be a bandwidth around that value which we choose to include for our purposes.
My problem and reason for posting here was that it seemed to be implied that 'any' signal which excurses only one side of the zero line should be described as DC. That is far too simple a description. If a waveform happens to be Unidirectional, that could well be of interest in an experiment.
 
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