Is There an Absolute Maximum Temperature Beyond Planck Temperature?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of an absolute maximum temperature, particularly in relation to the Planck temperature and its implications in theoretical physics. Participants explore the nature of temperature, thermal equilibrium, and the behavior of systems at extreme temperatures, including both theoretical and experimental perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the Planck temperature is a point where current theories may break down, raising questions about the existence of a maximum temperature.
  • Others suggest that absolute cold or hot may relate to the concept of time ceasing to make sense, indicating a deeper philosophical inquiry.
  • A participant discusses the definition of temperature in statistical mechanics, noting that in certain restricted systems, negative temperatures can exist, which are considered "hotter" than positive temperatures.
  • There is mention of specific systems, like spin systems, where the highest energy state is defined, and how these systems behave differently from more conventional thermodynamic systems.
  • Another participant references cosmological models that posit the Planck temperature as the highest possible temperature, while also discussing the implications of quantum physics on temperature definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the existence and implications of an absolute maximum temperature, with no consensus reached on the definitions or the nature of temperature at extreme conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of temperature and thermal equilibrium, as well as the unresolved nature of how these concepts apply in extreme conditions or restricted systems.

ryan albery
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Like absolute zero, is there an absolute maximum temperature?
 
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Possibly... there is something called the Planck temperature where it is speculated current theory may break down, that being said, what is your motivation for asking if there is a maximum temperature? For any theory speculating a max temp is pretty different than the reason for absolute zero.
 
I'm wondering if absolute cold (or hot) is where 'time' no longer makes sense?
 
It depends on how you define your system and what you allow to be called a thermal equilibrium. In statistical mechanics, temperature is defined as dE/dS. In normal systems, the entropy increases as you increase the energy because you have more quanta of energy which you can assign to your degrees of freedom. However, in a restricted system with just a limited number of degrees of freedom and a maximum energy state, the degrees of freedom start to fill up as you increase the energy past halfway, and the entropy decreases with increasing energy, which indicates a negative temperature. In this restricted system, negative temperatures are hotter than positive temperatures, and the limit of hottest temperature is -0 (zero, approaching from negative side).
So, the scale of hotness goes (from left to right)
0 ... 1 ... +infinity = -infinity ... -1 ... -0

An example of a restricted system is something like a spin system, where you have a bunch of particles with spin up or spin down, in a magnetic field, so spin up has higher energy than spin down. The highest energy in this system is if all particles are spin up. So, the ground state, with all particles spin down is near absolute 0, and all spin up is near absolute hot (absolute negative 0?).

A few caveats are in order. The temperature of the restricted system applies to just this restricted system, whereas we are not able to assign a temperature to the "full" system because the full system is not in thermal equilibrium. The energy stored in the spins will eventually spread into other degrees of freedom like motion, and the total system always has a positive temperature, as far as I know. It only makes sense to define a "spin temperature" if the spins interact with each other much more strongly than with external degrees of freedom (e.g., spin energy leaks into motion energy very slowly).

In fact, if you want to talk about true thermal equilibrium, then you need to include pair production and annhilation degrees of freedom, and wait until the universe settles into heat death. So lab experiment is far from true thermal equilibrium and is using a restricted temperature measurment.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_hot
Current cosmological models posit that the highest possible temperature is the Planck temperature, which has the value 1.416785(71)×1032 kelvin.
Quantum physics formally assumes infinitely positive or negative temperatures in descriptions of spin system undergoing population inversion from the ground state to a higher energy state by excitation with electromagnetic radiation.
 

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