Is there an Altitude Dependence on Helmholtz Free Energy?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the altitude dependence of Helmholtz free energy, particularly in the context of nitrogen molecules and their density variations at different elevations. The original poster is exploring how these factors relate to free energy per particle under the assumption of thermal equilibrium.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to reason that since temperature and internal energy remain constant due to thermal equilibrium, density may not influence free energy. However, they express uncertainty about the role of pressure at higher altitudes. Other participants suggest calculating Helmholtz free energy per mole as a function of altitude, raising questions about the implications of temperature changes with altitude.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding calculations, but there is no explicit consensus on the relationship between altitude and free energy yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the temperature typically decreases with altitude in the atmosphere, which may affect the assumptions made about thermal equilibrium. There is also mention of the barotropic equation for calculating pressure at various altitudes, indicating that additional information may be necessary for a complete analysis.

yadamada
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Homework Statement


[/B]
The density of nitrogen molecules is larger at a sea level than at a higher elevation. Assuming thermal equilibrium, what is the altitude dependence of the (Helmholtz)free energy per particle?

Homework Equations


F=U-TS, not sure if anything else is relevant

The Attempt at a Solution


My initial guess is no. Mainly because looking at the equation for free energy, the temperature is the same because of thermal equilibrium, and the internal energy is the same. Since we are talking about free energy per particle, I would imagine density would have nothing to do with it. But at a higher altitude, the pressure would be less, and I am not exactly sure how pressure affects the free energy. Thanks. My options are that the free energy would be:

greater at sea level compared to higher elevation
less than sea level
the same
 
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In the lower atmosphere, the temperature decreases with altitude. The lapse rate is on the order of about 10 K per km. You can also calculate the average pressure at any altitude from the barotropic equation. Why don't you just calculate the Helmholtz free energy per mole as a function of altitude and see what it comes out to be?

Chet
 
Chestermiller said:
In the lower atmosphere, the temperature decreases with altitude. The lapse rate is on the order of about 10 K per km. You can also calculate the average pressure at any altitude from the barotropic equation. Why don't you just calculate the Helmholtz free energy per mole as a function of altitude and see what it comes out to be?

Chet
isnt the fact that the question states it is in thermal equilibrium the temperature will be the same?
 
yadamada said:
isnt the fact that the question states it is in thermal equilibrium the temperature will be the same?
Actually, I don't know what they mean. In the actual atmosphere, the temperature decreases with altitude.
 

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