Is this a valid explanation of why ln() is unbounded near zero?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of the natural logarithm function, particularly its unbounded nature as it approaches zero. Participants are exploring the implications of derivatives and definitions related to unbounded functions within the context of the function defined on the interval (-1, 0).

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the derivative of a function related to the logarithm and its implications for monotonicity. Questions arise about the sufficiency of these conditions to establish unboundedness. There is also a consideration of alternative functions and their properties, leading to a discussion on the definition of unboundedness and the appropriate intervals to consider.

Discussion Status

The conversation is active, with participants providing insights and counter-examples. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of definitions and the exploration of specific intervals. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being examined, particularly concerning the behavior of the logarithm function near zero.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a defined interval and are questioning the assumptions related to the behavior of the logarithm function. There is an emphasis on ensuring that values remain within the specified domain while exploring the properties of the functions involved.

Eclair_de_XII
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Homework Statement
Define ##f:(-1,0)\rightarrow \mathbb{R}## by ##f(x)=-\ln(-x)##. Show that ##f## is unbounded.
Relevant Equations
A function ##f## is said to be unbounded if for all positive numbers ##M##, there is a ##y## in ##\textrm{dom}(f)## such that ##|f(y)|>M##.
So far, I found the derivative of ##f##:

\begin{align*}
\frac{d}{dx}\,f(x)&=&-\frac{d}{dx}\,\ln(-x)\\
&=&-\left(\frac{1}{(-x)}\right)(-1)\\
&=&-\frac{1}{x}
\end{align*}

##f'(x)## is always positive and never zero on its domain.

Hence, ##f## does not have a local maximum and is always increasing on the interval ##(-1,0)##.

Are these conditions sufficient to argue that ##\ln## is unbounded near zero?
 
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What about f(x)=x? The derivative is always positive as well. Is that unbounded?
 
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That is not what they are looking for. You should directly use the definition of "unbounded" that you gave. Assume that you have a value for ##M \gt 0## and determine a region ##R=(0,r]## for which ##x\in R## implies ##ln(x)\gt M##.

EDIT: The above is wrong. Determine a value, ##r \in (-1,0)## where ##|f(r)|\gt M##.
 
Last edited:
It's not as simple as setting ##f(r) = M + 1## and then solving for ##r##, is it?

##r=-\exp[-(M+1)]##

\begin{align*}
f(r)&=&-\ln(-r)\\
&=&-\ln[-(-\exp[-(M+1)])]\\
&=&-\ln[\exp[-(M+1)]]\\
&=&\ln[\exp(M+1)]\\
&=&M+1\\
&>&M
\end{align*}
 
Is r inside the interval you are supposed to be working on?
 
Let me see:

1. The ##\exp## function is always positive, so ##-\exp(x)## for some ##x## is always negative.
2. ##e>2>0##. ##M## is positive, so the sum ##M+1## is positive. ##|e^{-(M+1)}|=\frac{1}{e^{M+1}}<1##, as a result.

I should think that ##r=-\exp[-(M+1)]## is in ##(-1,0)##
 
Last edited:
Looks right to me.
 
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Arr, thanks for the help and giving that counter-example that I overlooked.
 
Eclair_de_XII said:
Define ##f:(-1,0)\rightarrow \mathbb{R}## by ##f(x)=-\ln(-x)##. Show that ##f## is unbounded.
It would have been simpler to work with ##g(x) = \ln(x)## on the interval (0, 1). It would have made the arithmetic a bit less tedious. This function is the reflection across both the x and y axes of the one you have. Both f and g are unbounded for x near 0.
 
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