Is this solenoid / permanent magnet configuration possible?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the configuration of a solenoid in conjunction with permanent magnets, specifically focusing on how this arrangement might influence the strength of the solenoid's magnetic field, particularly at its south pole. The inquiry seeks to explore theoretical implications and interactions between the magnetic fields of the solenoid and the permanent magnets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the proposed configuration differs from a previous discussion, indicating a need for clarity on the arrangement.
  • Another participant asserts that placing permanent magnets in the described arrangement is feasible but expresses confusion over the term "act as a buffer" between the solenoid's poles.
  • A participant elaborates that the total magnetic field would be the sum of the fields from both the solenoid and the permanent magnets, suggesting that this could complicate the field lines.
  • There is a suggestion that the interaction might lead to a quadrupole field configuration rather than a simple dipole, indicating a more complex relationship between the fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of the configuration, with multiple viewpoints regarding the interaction of the magnetic fields and the resulting complexity of the field lines.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the specific effects on the strength of the solenoid's magnetic poles and the nature of the field interactions, indicating a lack of clarity on the assumptions involved in the proposed configuration.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring magnetic field interactions, solenoid design, and the theoretical implications of combining different magnetic sources in experimental setups.

JayAshby
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TL;DR
Hi, I was wondering if it would work to have permanent magnets placed around the middle of a solenoid, which can act as a buffer between the north and south poles of the solenoid. I have drawn what I think the field will look like in blue. Would this have any impact on the strength of the solenoid's magnetic field? Thanks.
Screenshot 2024-01-02 134116.png
 
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How is this different from your previous thread start?

JayAshby said:
TL;DR Summary: Hi, I've been working on a solenoid design and was wondering if I have this configuration, how would the strength of the solenoid (specifically the south pole) be affected by the permanent magnet? Would it potentially gain strength, or would it result in a loss? Assume minimal distance between magnet and solenoid.

View attachment 337870
 
You certainly could place permanent magnets in that arrangement. But I don’t know what “act as a buffer between the north and south poles of the solenoid” would even mean.

If you have two sources, each with their own field, then the total field from both sources together is the sum of the fields from each source individually.
 
berkeman said:
How is this different from your previous thread start?
Dale said:
You certainly could place permanent magnets in that arrangement. But I don’t know what “act as a buffer between the north and south poles of the solenoid” would even mean.

If you have two sources, each with their own field, then the total field from both sources together is the sum of the fields from each source individually.
Hi Dale, thanks for the reply. By buffer I mean that the magnet field of the solenoid would be joined with the permanent magnets. Essentially, the magnetic field lines leaving the north end of the solenoid would then join the south end of the magnets instead of the south end of the solenoid. And the magnetic field lines leaving the north ends of the magnets would join with the south end of the solenoid. If this were the case, I'm unsure how it would affect the strength of the north and south poles of the solenoid.
 
To get the total field you would add the fields together. That would make the field lines more complicated. I guess some lines would go from the solenoid to the permanent magnets, but not all of them. The field would be at least quadrupole instead of dipole.
 
Interesting, thank you for your insight Dale.
 

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