Is this statement acceptable? (time derivative of a rotating vector)

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The discussion centers on the validity of a statement regarding the time derivative of a rotating vector, specifically addressing the treatment of delta t in the approximation. It confirms that both delta phi and delta t are positive, aligning their signs in the context of angular motion. The forum participants explore the formal derivation of the time derivative of a vector with constant magnitude and changing direction, emphasizing the relationship between the unit vector and its angular change. The acceptance of the limit statement regarding delta A and delta t is questioned, with a counterexample provided to illustrate that it is not universally valid. Overall, the conversation highlights the nuances in mathematical definitions and their implications in vector calculus.
Clockclocle
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Homework Statement
Is this statement acceptable?
Relevant Equations
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I understand the approximation statement but he divide the |delta t| in the left but only delta t on the right. Is it true because delta phi would have the same sign as delta t ?
 
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Yes. By definition ##\Delta \phi## is positive and the angle increases in the direction of the arrow in the top figure. ##\Delta t## is always positive.
 
kuruman said:
Yes. By definition ##\Delta \phi## is positive and the angle increases in the direction of the arrow in the top figure. ##\Delta t## is always positive.
He also use the fact that lim |##\Delta A##/##\Delta t##| = |lim ##\Delta A##/##\Delta t##|. Is that accepted?
 
There is a more formal way to show the same thing which I prefer.

You have a vector ##\mathbf A## that has constant magnitude ##A## and direction ##\mathbf {\hat a}## that changes with time. You can write the vector as its constant magnitude times the unit vector specifying the direction, ##\mathbf A=A~\mathbf {\hat a}##. Now $$\frac{d\mathbf A}{dt}=A\frac{d\mathbf {\hat a}}{dt}.$$ To find the derivative of the unit vector ##\mathbf a##, consider the drawing on the right. A
Unit Vectors.png
unit vector in the direction of changing angle ##\theta## is perpendicular to ##\mathbf {\hat a}.## In terms of the fixed Cartesian unit vectors
$$\begin{align} & \mathbf {\hat a}=\cos\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat x}+\sin\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat y} \\
& \mathbf {\hat {\theta}}=-\sin\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat x}+\cos\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat y}
\end{align}$$Now from equation (1) $$\frac{d\mathbf {\hat a}}{dt}=\frac{d\theta}{dt}(-\sin\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat x}+\cos\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat y})=\frac{d\theta}{dt}\mathbf {\hat{\theta}}$$ and the time rate of change of the constant-magnitude vector ##\mathbf A## is $$\frac{d\mathbf A}{dt}=A\frac{d\mathbf {\hat a}}{dt}=A\frac{d\theta}{dt}\mathbf {\hat{\theta}}.$$
 
Clockclocle said:
He also use the fact that lim |##\Delta A##/##\Delta t##| = |lim ##\Delta A##/##\Delta t##|. Is that accepted?
Not in general. Consider ##\lim _{x\rightarrow 0}(-1)^{\lfloor \frac 1x\rfloor}##.
 
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

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