Is this statement acceptable? (time derivative of a rotating vector)

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the validity of a statement regarding the time derivative of a rotating vector, specifically addressing the treatment of delta t in the approximation. It confirms that both delta phi and delta t are positive, aligning their signs in the context of angular motion. The forum participants explore the formal derivation of the time derivative of a vector with constant magnitude and changing direction, emphasizing the relationship between the unit vector and its angular change. The acceptance of the limit statement regarding delta A and delta t is questioned, with a counterexample provided to illustrate that it is not universally valid. Overall, the conversation highlights the nuances in mathematical definitions and their implications in vector calculus.
Clockclocle
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Homework Statement
Is this statement acceptable?
Relevant Equations
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I understand the approximation statement but he divide the |delta t| in the left but only delta t on the right. Is it true because delta phi would have the same sign as delta t ?
 
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Yes. By definition ##\Delta \phi## is positive and the angle increases in the direction of the arrow in the top figure. ##\Delta t## is always positive.
 
kuruman said:
Yes. By definition ##\Delta \phi## is positive and the angle increases in the direction of the arrow in the top figure. ##\Delta t## is always positive.
He also use the fact that lim |##\Delta A##/##\Delta t##| = |lim ##\Delta A##/##\Delta t##|. Is that accepted?
 
There is a more formal way to show the same thing which I prefer.

You have a vector ##\mathbf A## that has constant magnitude ##A## and direction ##\mathbf {\hat a}## that changes with time. You can write the vector as its constant magnitude times the unit vector specifying the direction, ##\mathbf A=A~\mathbf {\hat a}##. Now $$\frac{d\mathbf A}{dt}=A\frac{d\mathbf {\hat a}}{dt}.$$ To find the derivative of the unit vector ##\mathbf a##, consider the drawing on the right. A
Unit Vectors.png
unit vector in the direction of changing angle ##\theta## is perpendicular to ##\mathbf {\hat a}.## In terms of the fixed Cartesian unit vectors
$$\begin{align} & \mathbf {\hat a}=\cos\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat x}+\sin\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat y} \\
& \mathbf {\hat {\theta}}=-\sin\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat x}+\cos\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat y}
\end{align}$$Now from equation (1) $$\frac{d\mathbf {\hat a}}{dt}=\frac{d\theta}{dt}(-\sin\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat x}+\cos\!\theta~\mathbf {\hat y})=\frac{d\theta}{dt}\mathbf {\hat{\theta}}$$ and the time rate of change of the constant-magnitude vector ##\mathbf A## is $$\frac{d\mathbf A}{dt}=A\frac{d\mathbf {\hat a}}{dt}=A\frac{d\theta}{dt}\mathbf {\hat{\theta}}.$$
 
Clockclocle said:
He also use the fact that lim |##\Delta A##/##\Delta t##| = |lim ##\Delta A##/##\Delta t##|. Is that accepted?
Not in general. Consider ##\lim _{x\rightarrow 0}(-1)^{\lfloor \frac 1x\rfloor}##.
 
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