Is Your Model of Light an Effective Way to Visualize Electromagnetic Waves?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conceptual modeling of light as electromagnetic waves, with participants exploring various analogies and frameworks for understanding this phenomenon. The scope includes theoretical perspectives and conceptual clarifications rather than mathematical formulations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a model using pieces of rubber on water to visualize light as an oscillating electromagnetic field, suggesting that light is the field moving outward from an oscillating source.
  • Another participant argues that Newtonian physics is inadequate for modeling light, emphasizing that electromagnetic theory works well for larger scales but becomes complex at smaller scales, necessitating quantum theory.
  • A different participant agrees with the rubber model, noting that light can be seen as the electromagnetic field with incident waves causing oscillation in the source.
  • One contribution compares light to sound, suggesting that light is a quantum-relative equivalent of sound and mentioning different types of waves.
  • Another participant highlights that electromagnetic waves are generated by time-varying currents, indicating the necessity of moving charges for radiation to occur.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the adequacy of various models for light, with some supporting the rubber analogy and others emphasizing the limitations of classical physics. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best conceptual framework for understanding light.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of their models, noting that they are not mathematically rigorous and depend on simplified analogies. There is also recognition of the complexity introduced by quantum mechanics at smaller scales.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring conceptual models of light, students of physics seeking alternative visualizations, and those curious about the relationship between classical and quantum theories of light.

Monitor16807
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First I would like to say, I'm not that old and only know very basic things about physics i.e. Newtonian physics, also, I've not learned the maths for electromagnetic physics, so no need to try and explain it to me using that. I'm basically asking if you could tell me if I have a good model for imagining what light is.

So we have have 1 piece of rubber on a body of water, there are no waves what so ever, then someone throws a second piece of rubber on the water, this creates a wave, this wave then reaches the first piece of rubber and it starts oscillating up and down.

The water would be the electromagnetic field.
The 2 pieces of rubber would be electrons or any thing capable of emitting light.
The wave would be the light (photon?).

Remember this isn't suppose to be mathematically accurate, just a mind image.

I'm just saying light is actually the electromagnetic field (moving outwards at all time?) that just happened to have an oscillating source?

Thanks.
 
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Newtonian physics does a poor job of modeling light. It is essentially because of this fact that modern physics has been so successful.

Electromagnetic theory is a good model as long as you're dealing with big things. Light, on a large scale looks like a wave.

When you work with smaller things like electrons, things get messy and you have to break out quantum theory.
 
Monitor16807 said:
Remember this isn't suppose to be mathematically accurate, just a mind image.

I'm just saying light is actually the electromagnetic field (moving outwards at all time?) that just happened to have an oscillating source?

Yes, it is quite a working model of light. Emitting means moving outwards, correct. But waves from other sources can reach the original source and make it move (= incident wave scattering).

Bob.
 
light is the quantum.relative equivalence of sound

There are four kinds of waves in verse fluid.
Waves that bob up and down by surface are Rayleigh waves.
The fastest travel through as p or sound or light waves.

Peace
rwj
 
One thing to note though, an electromagnetic wave is created by currents that change in time. So you need to have a moving charge(s) to have radiation.
 

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