The Derivative Nature of Time and Its Relation to Earth's Rotation and Speed

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the derivative nature of time, emphasizing that time is fundamentally linked to physical systems, particularly the Earth's rotation. It asserts that time cannot exist independently of these systems, as clocks measure time based on the Earth's movements. The conversation highlights that while time is modeled as a fourth dimension, its definition remains contingent upon physical phenomena, such as the rotation of the Earth and the mechanics of clocks. The participants argue against the notion of time as a standalone entity, reinforcing that time is inherently tied to the measurement of change in physical systems.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of basic physics concepts, particularly time and motion.
  • Familiarity with the principles of special relativity and time dilation.
  • Knowledge of how clocks function and their relationship to physical systems.
  • Awareness of the Earth's rotation and its implications for time measurement.
NEXT STEPS
  • Explore the implications of time dilation in special relativity.
  • Study the mechanics of atomic clocks and their accuracy in measuring time.
  • Investigate the relationship between Earth's rotation and timekeeping standards.
  • Learn about the Lorentz transformations and their role in understanding time as a dimension.
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, students of physics, and anyone interested in the philosophical implications of time and its measurement in relation to physical systems.

  • #31
sumfor said:
Your day is determined by Earth's rotation to which you can assign a time.
You continue to miss the point. Does space not exist in your walls or outside your room? Of course it does - so in your definition you just assigned arbitrary boundaries (the walls), so I did too (the start and end of the day). Essentially, you defined space as "the gap between two arbitrarily chosen surfaces", so I defined time as the gap between two arbitrarily chosen events. If my definition of time is vacuous, as you contend, then so is your definition of space.

Which is kind of the point of operational definitions. We note that clocks are useful and rulers are useful, and that their behaviour implies the Lorentz transforms, which in turn implies that the clocks and rulers are measuring displacements in a 4d manifold with a Lorentzian signature. That's why we say time is the fourth dimension.
sumfor said:
And, no, time is not filled with air or anything else.
Really? What are you planning on breathing today if there's no air between morning and night?
 
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  • #32
"Time does not exist"

Gonna tell my boss that next time I get late to class, I am a physics teacher so who is he to argue with me!?
 
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  • #33
malawi_glenn said:
I am a physics teacher so who is he to argue with me!?
I hope he is not a philosopher …
 
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  • #34
Orodruin said:
I hope he is not a philosopher …
Nah he is a Chemist so he knows his place in scientific discussion with me!
Popular joke amongst us is that I ask how his stamp collection is coming along
 
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  • #35
I guess it's time to move on.
My answer suggested in #16 is probably too abstract.
 
  • #36
robphy said:
My answer suggested in #16 is probably too abstract.
Uh ... you think? :smile:
 
  • #37
sumfor said:
Space is the area between the walls of my room and between the objects contained within it. It's filled with air and has a particular volume.
What if you removed all air in your room?

How do you measure the, say, distance between your walls? Just by looking at them? Then it revolves around some physical dynamical process (traveling of light and neuroprocesses in your brain). Measuring with a ruler? You have to go and get a ruler and fiddle with it and then you have to look at the ruler...
One can not separate space from time that easily. I am looking at a chair in front of me "now" and see a door further back. But the light from the door has to travel a longer distance to my eyes than the light from the chair and therefore I see the door from an "earlier" time than what I see the chair.
 
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  • #38
malawi_glenn said:
How do you measure the, say, distance between your walls? Just by looking at them?

Then you see only light, not the walls.

 
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  • #39
As the OP has clearly demonstrated that they are only here to push their own personal viewpoint and not learn the standard approach this thread is closed. We can discuss the OP’s views when they are published in the professional scientific literature.
 
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