Japan Earthquake: Political Aspects

[SteveElbows]

Color me surprised.
But seriously, because of Fukushima we'll see how well humans can live in fallout areas. It's unconceivable that half of Japan will be evacuated, so...

Well the level of contamination is rather important, its certainly not the first time we have seen a nuclear accident cause problems for farming many hundreds of miles away. As parts of countries such as the UK are still dealing with this issue 25 years after Chernobyl, it won't be at all surprising if we see foodstuffs with contamination levels above the limit in many locations across Japan over time.

 

[SteveElbows]

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110513p2a00m0na019000c.html

According to the announcement, sludge with radioactivity levels of over 100,000 becquerels per kilogram should preferably be incinerated and melted in Fukushima Prefecture before being kept at sewage plants. Ash generated through sludge incineration should be contained in metal barrels to prevent it from scattering.

Ummm, is incinerating radioactive sludge a good idea?

Sludge with radioactivity levels of under 1,000 becquerels per kilogram can be recycled into cement and other material if the levels can be reduced to under 100 becquerels through mixture with other materials and dilution.

"The volume of radioactive sludge should be reduced as much as possible through recycling," said an official with the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, adding that the recycling of such sludge into fertilizer should be withheld for the time being.

Oh well at least the radioactive fertilizer is off the agenda for now, what a relief.

 

[etudiant]

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110513p2a00m0na019000c.html



Ummm, is incinerating radioactive sludge a good idea?



Oh well at least the radioactive fertilizer is off the agenda for now, what a relief.

According to some data on EX-SKF here
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/05/now-radioactive-sewage-sludge-from.html
the sewage sludge incineration releases about two thirds of the radioactivity, with the rest concentrated over tenfold in the ash. The ash is then used to help make cement, which may release more of the radioactivity, so the contamination is recycled through the air.
Unfortunately, while the iodine contamination could be largely solved for dairy products by using the milk to make cheese, cesium's long half life makes it a lasting menace.
There is no good fix, at best the people will need to filter everything and avoid local food.
Japan is becoming a testbed for living in a dirty world. Not a good thing.

 

[rowmag]

Some more contamination of tea leaves:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/13_39.html
Damn, this info is really a breaking news to me, not because of the levels (even it there are sufficiently high to make them unsafe!) but BECAUSE OF WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN MEASURED:

KANAGAWA prefecture is south of Tokyo!

It was mentioned on the news last night that those tea plantations have the bad luck to be on the sides of mountains facing Fukushima, so winds from that direction preferentially deposit fallout there. This effect was also apparently observed in the aftermath of Chernobyl.
(Same effect as seen for rain or snow,too, I guess.)

 

[Drakkith]

Even if this could have done in far better conditions of course (i mean that we shouldn't wait for a tsunami and a nuclear crisis to do it of course, because these are tough conditions for citizens...) this crisis is probably going to lead to good measures to work on energy efficiency and energy saving programs:


Govt sets summer power-saving target at 15%

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/13_18.html

Yep. It's still unfortunate that this had to happen. I'd hate to have to do something like go without AC all summer down here in Louisiana. (Summer is like 5-6 months long here by the way, or at least it feels like it)

 

[yakiniku]

Plutonium detected in rice paddy by a food manufacturer more than 50 kms away from Fukushima power plant:

http://jbpress.ismedia.jp/articles/-/7890?page=2

また、ある食品メーカーが独自に調査した結果では、福島第一原発から50キロ以上離れた水田の土から、政府が発表している数値よりケタ違いに高い放射線が検出されたという。

Additionally, a certain food manufacturing company conducted a survey by themselves. In a rice field is more than 50kms away from the Fukushima power plant, it was found that there was very high radiation that is very different to what the government released.

(heading)
原発から50キロ以上離れた田んぼの土から高濃度のプルトニウム

High density plutonium is in the rice field that was mentioned previously.

この食品メーカーによると、現時点でその結果を公表するのは影響が大きすぎるため発表は控えているとのことだが、その田んぼの土からは高い濃度のプルトニウムも検出されたそうだ。

According to this food manufacturing company, they currently don't announce these results due to the large influence* that this rice field has high concentration of plutonium.

* Note: It is not mentioned what the influence is but it implies they do not currently release the information as it may have an impact on the media/public.

 

[AntonL]

“4 reactors that are all still emitting significant amounts of radiation into the environment so this is not a situation that has been brought under control …we have ongoing leakage”

“Managing public opinion is as serious an operation as managing the crisis itself

“...it is easier to just reduce the amount of information the public has so that you can control the situation, at least from the point of view of public opinion and keep people from panicking”

http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday#p/search/15/Dxbm7iJTT8U at 4:20 onwards

unfortunately he also took up the leaning unit 4, 03:10 onwards, somehow those graphics look familiarhttp://jen.jiji.com/jc/eng?g=eco&k=2011051400255

Japan to Seek APEC Cooperation to Dispel N-Crisis Rumors

Washington, May 14 (Jiji Press)--Japan is to seek cooperation from other members of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in dispelling harmful rumors stemming from the country's nuclear crisis at a meeting of APEC trade ministers to be held Thursday-Friday in Big Sky, Montana.
Japan will ask its APEC partners to respond calmly to the radiation leak accident at the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant in northeastern Japan, with regard to their import restrictions on Japanese food and industrial products, sources said.

Only way to suppress rumors is to have an open, honest and complete information policy.

 

[jlduh]

Well, looking at the last results of contamination in the last days in the grass, tea leaves and maybe now rice padding, now at a large distance from the plant (more than 300 kms for the tea leaves), it smell that this desaster is going to become a very large affair in the next weeks/months. A a big scandal also.

 

[AntonL]

Well, looking at the last results of contamination in the last days in the grass, tea leaves and maybe now rice padding, now at a large distance from the plant (more than 300 kms for the tea leaves), it smell that this desaster is going to become a very large affair in the next weeks/months. A a big scandal also.

And now

Radioactive ash found in Tokyo sewage plant -

The ash, containing an unidentified substance with a radioactive density of 170,000 Becquerel per kg, was collected from a plant in Koto Ward, eastern Tokyo, the Nikkei and Sankei dailies said, quoting metropolitan government sources.

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_668600.html

 

[jlduh]

hopefully not something bad again...

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/05/91196.html

Trouble delayed cold shutdown of Hamaoka nuke reactor
SHIZUOKA, Japan, May 15, Kyodo

Chubu Electric Power Co. said Sunday that cooling system trouble delayed the 'cold shutdown' of the No. 5 reactor at its Hamaoka power plant in Shizuoka Prefecture for about two hours earlier in the day, while ruling out any external release of radioactive substances.

 

[etudiant]

And now

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_668600.html

Not good news.
Earlier coverage of the contamination at other sewage treatment plants in the vicinity of the accident site here:
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/05/now-radioactive-sewage-sludge-from.html#comments
The contamination measured in those sites near to Fukushima was about 30,000 bequerels of cesium per kg of waste, rising to about 10x that in the residual ash left after burning the sludge. So the contamination measured here has only dropped by about a factor of 2 despite the increased distance. Clearly the hope that airborne emissions would be efficiently diluted as they disperse has been disappointed.
Sewage is an excellent indicator of the overall level of pollutants and is routinely used for that purpose, for instance to monitor urban drug use. These data indicate that the radiation contamination from Fukushima is already so widespread that it is doubtful whether the Japanese authorities have any options other than to increase the allowable contamination levels for foodstuffs and construction material.

 

[Danuta]

Perchance this sheds a little more light on why TEPCO is behaving the way it's behaving.

The new enervated TEPCO

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20110516a1.html"

"Tepco's interest-bearing liabilities, including corporate bonds, total more
than ¥7.3 trillion, most of which is owed to insurance companies and financial
institutions, both private and government-owned. The biggest lender is the
Development Bank of Japan, which is 100 percent state-owned. It has lent more
than ¥300 billion to Tepco.

Shortly after the Fukushima plant accidents, major banks committed another
¥2 trillion in credit lines to Tepco, including ¥600 billion from Sumitomo Mitsui
Banking Corp.

Should Tepco go bankrupt, not only would the Japanese financial market be thrown
into an utter chaos, but international markets would lose their trust in Japanese
banking institutions to the extent that the institutions would have to pay higher
interest rates to secure funds.

If worse comes to worst, Tepco share certificates would become worthless sheets
of paper for 600,000 shareholders as well as for many corporate pension funds that
have included Tepco stock in their portfolios. The steep drop in Tepco's stock price has
already dealt a blow to investment funds in the United States. Nearly 20 percent of its
stock is held by non-Japanese investors. This has reportedly led the Obama administration
to urge the Kan government to take steps to prevent a further decline in Tepco stock."

 

[etudiant]

Perchance this sheds a little more light on why TEPCO is behaving the way it's behaving.

The new enervated TEPCO

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20110516a1.html"

"Tepco's interest-bearing liabilities, including corporate bonds, total more
than ¥7.3 trillion, most of which is owed to insurance companies and financial
institutions, both private and government-owned. The biggest lender is the
Development Bank of Japan, which is 100 percent state-owned. It has lent more
than ¥300 billion to Tepco.

Shortly after the Fukushima plant accidents, major banks committed another
¥2 trillion in credit lines to Tepco, including ¥600 billion from Sumitomo Mitsui
Banking Corp.

Should Tepco go bankrupt, not only would the Japanese financial market be thrown
into an utter chaos, but international markets would lose their trust in Japanese
banking institutions to the extent that the institutions would have to pay higher
interest rates to secure funds.

If worse comes to worst, Tepco share certificates would become worthless sheets
of paper for 600,000 shareholders as well as for many corporate pension funds that
have included Tepco stock in their portfolios. The steep drop in Tepco's stock price has
already dealt a blow to investment funds in the United States. Nearly 20 percent of its
stock is held by non-Japanese investors. This has reportedly led the Obama administration
to urge the Kan government to take steps to prevent a further decline in Tepco stock."

Excellent point.
TEPCO is in a difficult position, serving as the spearcatcher for the Japanese government, exposed to overwhelming costs and liabilities, with only a promise of some government support for the eventual compensation payments.
The company has not the resources, financially, managerially or technically to cope adequately with a disaster of this magnitude. However, the problem is so bad that there is no clear reason for the government to step in and take charge. It would raise costs but not get more accomplished, afaik.
The center of Japan is already seriously contaminated and the reactors are scrap.
Admittedly, Michio Ishikawa of the Japan Nuclear Technology Institute has forcefully argued for a much more aggressive approach, but he may have changed his view in light of the disclosure that reactor 1 was entirely lost within a day of the disaster. Now that the reactors are lost, the problem becomes a vast and painful cleanup, which will leave Japan permanently scarred. The political leadership will try to ensure that that can remains tied to TEPCO. The money is a tertiary concern.

 

[jlduh]

hopefully not something bad again...

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/05/91196.html

Hummm, no, nothing serious, just 400 tons of seawater found in N°5 reactor coolant of Hamaoka plant!

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_03.html

In the course of shutdown, plant operator Chubu Electric Power Company found impure substances in coolant water at the No.5 reactor.

The company reports damage to a duct connected to a condenser, a system that turns the steam generated by a nuclear reactor to water through the use of seawater.
Chubu Electric Power Company says 400 tons of seawater may be mixed into the cooling water that goes through the reactor.

It says 400 tons would not severely affect the reactor, and that no radioactive substances were detected outside the building.

But in order to prevent the reactor being eroded by seawater, the operator will take measures to remove salt from the cooling water.

They should ask Tepco which has a good know how of cooling reactor with seawater...

Damn, they were saying that theses plants didn't endure damages during earthquake... Might not be exactly the case?

 

[Danuta]

... The political leadership will try to ensure that that can remains tied to TEPCO. The money is a tertiary concern.

Yup, you are right, the can remains tied till the last hours. But methinks TEPCO is doomed already (KABOOM). It has
over 90 billion bucks in debt(that's from a month ago) and around 30 billion in equity buffer. Nationalization is on the
horizon. It's just too big a company to let tank. Then Japan can hit up the US for money owed to further finance the
stoppage and cleanup of the ongoing nuke disaster.

 

[jlduh]

An other interesting article about the "Whistleblower Who Shutdown 17 Nuclear Reactors in Japan" (including recently published video of interview)

http://criticality.org/2011/05/whistleblower-shutdown-17-nuclear-reactors/

 

[Danuta]

An other interesting article about the "Whistleblower Who Shutdown 17 Nuclear Reactors in Japan" (including recently published video of interview)

http://criticality.org/2011/05/whistleblower-shutdown-17-nuclear-reactors/

I posted the same vid a couple of posts back. It's rather interesting viewing!

 

[Danuta]

Hummm, no, nothing serious, just 400 tons of seawater found in N°5 reactor coolant of Hamaoka plant!

Em, #5 is a BWR? Yeah, yeah, no problemo with the injection of a little seawater. So the real reason they shut Hamaoka
down is due to earthquake damage necessitating almost trashing(if not trashing) reactor #5 with seawater, and not the sudden
concern over underestimated risk and peoples' welfare. God but these guys positively stink at spin doctoring too.

 

[etudiant]

Yup, you are right, the can remains tied till the last hours. But methinks TEPCO is doomed already (KABOOM). It has
over 90 billion bucks in debt(that's from a month ago) and around 30 billion in equity buffer. Nationalization is on the
horizon. It's just too big a company to let tank. Then Japan can hit up the US for money owed to further finance the
stoppage and cleanup of the ongoing nuke disaster.

Your opinion is clearly shared.
The Japanese National Policy Minister Koichiro Genba just said publicly that TEPCO 'may not survive as is'.
Link here: http://jen.jiji.com/jc/eng?g=eco&k=2011051600073

 

[Danuta]

Your opinion is clearly shared.
The Japanese National Policy Minister Koichiro Genba just said publicly that TEPCO 'may not survive as is'.
Link here: http://jen.jiji.com/jc/eng?g=eco&k=2011051600073

So it seems.

Somewhere in the middle of this are some very angry Japanese banksters threatening
to refuse any future loans to TEPCO after Edano's hint, hint, ah, bold suggestion, that
said banksters waive all of TEPCO's present loans.

But, well, nationalization after the bankruptcy would solve that "future loans" obstacle
too. (And quite frankly, who really gives a hoot about banksters losing any money.)

We shall see how it all plays out.


Bank chiefs unsettled by Edano's remarks over TEPCO
http://www.istockanalyst.com/business/news/5146869/update1-bank-chiefs-unsettled-by-edano-s-remarks-over-tepco"

"The heads of major banking groups did not hide their discomfort on Friday at
remarks by the government's top spokesman suggesting banks lending to the
embattled Tokyo Electric Power Co. (OOTC:TKECY) should forgive their debt and
help the utility pay compensation over the crisis at its Fukushima Daiichi nuclear
power plant.

Loans extended to Tokyo Electric, known as TEPCO, by SMFG, Mizuho and other
big banks amount to around 4 trillion yen, including 1.9 trillion yen in emergency
loans offered after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

''We have lent to TEPCO, considering the significant role it plays for the interest
of Japanese society,'' a senior official at a major bank said, complaining about
Edano's comments.

In the event of debt forgiveness, the official added, any loans to TEPCO must
be categorized as nonperforming and this could make it rather difficult for banks
to extend additional loans to the company."

 

[jlduh]

It seems that more governors start to be pretty angry about the principle retained by government of the basic circular evacuation zones and want more "fine tuning" forecast through SPEEDI system:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_11.html

Shiga Prefecture in western Japan is one of the prefectures that has asked for the radiation forecast system. It lies 13 kilometers from a nuclear power plant in neighboring Fukui Prefecture.

Shiga Governor Yukiko Kada says it is unreasonable to draw up evacuation plans simply based on the distance from nuclear power plants. She says such plans should be studied based on data the system provides.

Kyoto Prefecture, also neighboring Fukui, has decided to expand the scope of its disaster preparedness plan to cover areas 20 kilometers from the power plant in Fukui.

All things some of us already mentionned and criticized in the last weeks here, by the way...

The problem is: time and deposits going on, data will soon reveal to either evacuate or... just absorb more and more doses as "no short term improvement" is foreseen at the plant (to say it in a politically correct manner...)

 

[jlduh]

I wanted to mention here this documentary that was made by a famous documentarist, Adam Curtis, whose films have been widely shown and awarded especially at the BBC (more on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/03/a_is_for_atom.html

very interesting because it goes back to old times and history of BWR reactors and GE...

 

[pdObq]

I wanted to mention here this documentary that was made by a famous documentarist, Adam Curtis, whose films have been widely shown and awarded especially at the BBC (more on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/03/a_is_for_atom.html

very interesting because it goes back to old times and history of BWR reactors and GE...

Wow, thanks for that link, that documentary is kind of disturbing (although it's not really surprising that much blame goes to business and sales people).

One thought during watching: It would not seem terribly unfair if GE (or GE-Hitachi) had to pay its share in the whole mess. After all, they designed those reactors and sold them to TEPCO, almost certainly without letting them know about the known risks.

Just for comparison (although possibly not quite comparable):

Toyota had to pay and its image got damaged just because some "operators" mixed up the accelerator with the break pedal.

"BP" Oil Spill: So far BP is getting all the blame, but how about Transocean who owned the platform and did the work, how about Haliburton who (likely) did a poor cementing job, how about the company that built the blowout preventer? IMHO they all should pay their share depending on how much they are able to contribute without going bankrupt.

 

[gmax137]

... It would not seem terribly unfair if GE (or GE-Hitachi) had to pay its share in the whole mess. After all, they designed those reactors and sold them to TEPCO, almost certainly without letting them know about the known risks.

Source, please?

Oh, almost certainly there is no source.

 

[pdObq]

Source, please?

Oh, almost certainly there is no source.

Source?? I guess that would be me, as I wrote that was a thought I had while watching that documentary...

Did you watch it? One could probably make a list of the actual sources shown in the documentary (studies and interviews). It's pre Fukushima-crisis, though, so there is no information about the history of TEPCO or the plant in there. However there is about GE and its BWR design.

 

[jlduh]

Don't preclude to quickly that there are none

Sorry if it isn't a pure source (peer review article etc.) but at least this is an article that summarizes the history of mark I containment and some old studies (not sure they are available on the net anyway) which made this design very controversial:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16contain.html

Several utilities and plant operators also threatened to sue G.E. in the late 1980s after the disclosure of internal company documents dating back to 1975 that suggested that the containment vessel designs were either insufficiently tested or had flaws that could compromise safety.

See also this document hyperlinked in the article, which criticizes the technology used by GE in order to reduce size of containment and ultimately cost:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/greeninc/hanauer.pdf

And you have also an interesting page, PAGE 63, in this document, where are compared the abilities of different containments to absorb a sudden Hydrogen production from Zr oxydation, and Mark I is far behind the other ones (high percents of H2 inside the containment are reached much quicker, increasing risks of explosion...)

http://www.galcit.caltech.edu/~jeshep/fukushima/ShepherdFukushima30April2011.pdf

I don't have access to all the documents behind this article of the NY times but in the mega trial that will follow this desaster, no doubt that there will be a cascade of responsabilities that will be debated (long and hard anyway!) and that Tepco will mayb be tempted to sue GE and maybe other subcontractors to share the burden of responsabilities, as anyway this history exist and that some documents may be available...

Meanwhile, the article precise that "G.E.’s liability would seem limited in Japan — largely because the regulatory system in that country places most liability on the plant operator".

Also, these reactors have been through some retrofit to improve the flaws but it is unclear right now which ones are implemented at Daichi (the hardened venting seems part of this, also some deflectors in the torus, but still retrofit has its limits of course...)

Anyway, this will be a VERY COMPLEX trial (a bunch of different trials in fact), as an expert for courts, with some experience in this kind of technical debate, i can assure you that!

By the way it seems the first ones (of a long list...) to claim compensation from Tepco will be the farmers:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/17_33.html

Farmers in Fukushima Prefecture plan to demand about 5.5 million dollars in damages from TEPCO over radioactive contamination from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

32 agricultural groups decided at a meeting in Fukushima City on Tuesday that they will make the demand to Tokyo Electric Power Company on May 27th. It will be their first compensation claim.

 

[Danuta]

I don't have access to all the documents behind this article of the NY times but in the mega trial that will follow this desaster, no doubt that there will be a cascade of responsabilities that will be debated (long and hard anyway!) and that Tepco will mayb be tempted to sue GE and maybe other subcontractors to share the burden of responsabilities, as anyway this history exist and that some documents may be available...

Meanwhile, the article precise that "G.E.’s liability would seem limited in Japan — largely because the regulatory system in that country places most liability on the plant operator".

Couldn't seem like a better time for a certain law revision.

Laws revised to make it easier to sue foreign firms in Japan
Thursday 28th April 2011
http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/laws-revised-to-make-it-easier-to-sue-foreign-firms-in-japan"


"Legal revisions to enable consumers to file lawsuits against foreign companies more easily in Japan were approved Thursday by a majority of lawmakers in the House of Representatives.

With the approval, consumers and workers will be able to file suits against foreign firms with Japanese courts, in principle, if their residence addresses are in Japan.

The enactment of the revised Code of Civil Procedure and the revised Civil Preservation Law will also allow Japanese courts to deal with legal cases if defendant foreign firms have their main offices in Japan or if their representatives live in Japan.

Until now, there was no domestic law governing the jurisdiction of civil litigation involving parties belonging to Japan and other countries, thus Japanese courts had to handle those suits on a case-by-case basis, based on precedents.

The legal revisions were made to stipulate under what kind of circumstances Japanese courts can have jurisdiction amid an increasing number of problems involving transactions through the Internet and employment contracts between people in Japan and foreign firms."

 

[gmax137]

Thanks for those links, jlduh, the hanauer memo especially is interesting (as is typical of his work). But I don't see how AEC debating the merits of the pressure suppression containment designs shows that the weaknesses of the design were some secret closely guarded by GE. Further, the issues discussed by hanauer don't really address what seems to have happened at fukusima -- namely h2 explosions in the secondary containment.

 

[pdObq]

One thought during watching: It would not seem terribly unfair if GE (or GE-Hitachi) had to pay its share in the whole mess. After all, they designed those reactors and sold them to TEPCO, almost certainly without letting them know about the known risks.

Source, please?
Oh, almost certainly there is no source.

Did you watch it? One could probably make a list of the actual sources shown in the documentary (studies and interviews). It's pre Fukushima-crisis, though, so there is no information about the history of TEPCO or the plant in there. However there is about GE and its BWR design.

jlduh, thanks for the backup !

gmax137, I suppose you were offended a bit by the "almost certainly without letting them know about the known risks". I mean, you probably don't want to debate about that GE designed the reactors, nor about that GE (and later GE-Hitachi AFAIK) sold them to TEPCO?

I was looking for a transcript of that documentary, but I couldn't find anything so far. However, Adam Curtis (who made it for BBC back in 1992) puts it into the context of the Fukushima accidents in his http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/03/a_is_for_atom.html" that jlduh found in his post above. So, let me quote Mr Curtis (with some highlighting by me):

The film shows that from very early on - as early as 1964 - US government officials knew that there were serious potential dangers with the design of the type of reactor that was used to build the Fukushima Daiichi plant. But that their warnings were repeatedly ignored.

[...]

Those early plants in America were the Boiling Water Reactors. And that is the very model that was used to build the reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi plant. Three of them were supplied directly by General Electric.

In 1966 the US government Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards tried to force the industry to redesign their containment structures to make them safer. But the chairman of the committee claims in the film that General Electric in effect refused.

And in 1971 the Atomic Energy Commission did a series of tests of Emergency Core Cooling systems. Accidents were simulated. In each case the emergency systems worked - but the water failed to fill the core. Often being forced out under pressure.

As one of the AEC scientists says in the film: "We discovered that our theoretical calculations didn't have a strong correlation with reality. But we just couldn't admit to the public that all these safety systems we told you about might not do any good"

And again the warnings were ignored by senior members of the Agency and the industry.

That was the same year that the first of the Fukushima Daiichi plant's reactors came online. Supplied by General Electric.

There are more interviews and references to studies in the film itself, in which IIRC is stated that a) they knew their plants were not as safe as possible quite early on, b) they were trying to make it a profitable business (since they had spent already so much money on the technology that they could not go back any more), so they had to sell plants at the lowest possible prices to be competitive with fossile fuel plants, which lead to safety compromises.

So, common sense tells me, that in order to do b), you don't tell your potential customers about a), at least not in any honest way (Just think about used car dealers...). Because if you did they just would not buy it. Probably the TEPCO people really were convinced that it was a safe technology (maybe even the GE sales people were!), but of course there is no easily available source for that either .

In terms of responsibility, maybe those law suits agaist the tobacco industry in the US are more related to this case, in the sense of "But you told us it was safe..."

Well, we'll see what's going to happen regarding possible law suits against GE.

 

[jlduh]

I was ready to answer to GMAX137 but I think you summarized pretty well pdObq what would have been my answer.

There are a lot of information in this documentary and I'm sure that there are documents behind to support what the guys interviewed in the documentary are saying. Most were "insiders" at this time with responsabilities in various organisations, and that's the force of the film. They are talking freely because they are much older, or even very old, and no more implied in the business! Also the film is not one based on sensationalism after the Fukushima accident, this documentary is from 1992, so its interest is just being rediscovered in light with the Fukushima disaster.

The dates mentioned in the video seem to pretty well correlate with the possibility that at the date of building Fukushima plant was started to be built in 1967, so at this date, based on some of the dates mentionned in Adam CURTIS site (1966), the discussions between american regulators and GE about redesign demands and flaws of the primary design, already occurred, but as you said it is very probable that the japanese weren't informed of that (the Hanauer document is from a later date, September 1972, so one year after the start of reactor N°1 at Fukushima).

So yes, it can be said with some reason that it has "probably" been kept secret at this date to Japanese buyers.

Something else to mention to explain what the documentary is showing very well -the fact that in this era, some countries were rushing in a race to be the first, and that safety was NOT AT ALL the primary concern- is that, in addition to the "make money" reason, there was as second reason why these leading countries wanted to build a profitable civil nuclear industry: the race they were involved in was also a military one, and as i mentionned already in some previous posts, they needed PLUTONIUM in larger quantities for the bombs and missiles... And one way to get it was through civil reactors, where PU is a byproduct of the nuclear fission in used cores. This is a know fact that civil nuclear birth happened as a close brother of military nuclear.

All of this old history is resurging with the Fukushima disaster, which scares a little bit the nuclear industry IMO...

It very premature to know IF there will be a juridic battle on this, it depends closely of the behind the screen relations that are currently taking place between governments and various interests. Personally i would be very surprised if this would happen, but we'll see. Don't forget that Tepco is or will be in a short future almost nationalized (and at least very dependent of state funding...) so the game will be decided at high level with strategical things on the table.