Jet Sound Contribution to Shock Waves Near Supersonic Planes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the contribution of jet engine sound to the overall sound energy near shock waves created by supersonic airplanes. Participants explore the nature of sound produced by jet engines and its relationship to shock waves, considering both theoretical and practical aspects of supersonic flight.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the sound emitted from jet engines contributes little to the overall sound energy near shock waves, suggesting that the primary sound comes from unsteady disturbances in the engine.
  • Others argue that while the shock wave itself is a discontinuity in flow, the sound from jet engines can be significant, particularly from the tail end of the aircraft.
  • A participant notes that theoretical aircraft with silent engines would still create shock waves, implying that the sound from engines is not the only factor to consider.
  • There is mention of different types of sounds produced by jet engines, including a "screech" and a low rumble, with varying properties and implications for how they interact with shock waves.
  • Some participants highlight that fan noise and exhaust noise are the main contributors to jet engine noise, with fan noise being more tonal and exhaust noise being broad band and random.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the original question was specifically about the extent to which jet engine sound magnifies the effect of shock waves, rather than the mechanisms of sound production.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of jet engine sound in relation to shock waves, with no consensus reached on the extent of its contribution. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interplay between engine noise and shock wave effects.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge various assumptions about sound propagation and the characteristics of shock waves, but these aspects remain unresolved and are dependent on specific conditions and definitions.

zoki85
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Typical supersonic airplane in supersonic flight creates 2 shock waves (2 Mach cones):
"N-shaped" shock wave.
How much of the "sound" energy near the shock waves region is contributed by the sound emmited from jet engines work?
 
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I believe not much at all. The biggest sound in a jet engine (the screech as it goes over you) is from unsteady disturbances on the stators (or something like that, as I've been told).

The shock is merely a discontinuity in the flow, and is caused by the rapid pressure drop,raise,drop. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that N shock is considered one shock as well.

On a side note, there are various different sounds emitted from a jet engine, and they all produce characteristically different sounds.
 
"N shock" is constituted of two Mach cones separated aproximately by a plane length (say 10..20 m in aircraft's vicinity).
Imagine theoretical aircraft with completely silent engines propagating supersonic.It creates two Mach cones.
Real aircrats are also source of a sound created by the work of its' propulsion engines.If you ever heard stationary work of such engines they can be source of a VERY POWERFUL SOUND!
Considering shock wave from the aircraft's nose they don't contribute nothing at all.Considering the shock from tail they can contribute and I think they may contribute quite a lot!
Another thinking is what is contribution in between two Mach cones.
Are my questions clear?
 
I forget the exact physics of the particular sounds, but there are two major "sounds" that are emitted by the engine. There is the "screech" you hear as a plane passes directly over you (I'm talking subsonic right now, but it should apply). If you've ever sat near an airport, you know what I'm talking about.

The properties of these unsteady waves allow it to spread at an almost right angle when it leaves the engine. Now, after a couple of seconds, you hear the low rumble. This is a completely different family of pressure waves. Those are higher amplitude, but much lower frequency.

I may be completely wrong, but I think at 50,000ft, the enormous pressure discontinuity would overwhelm effects from the jet engine.
 
The two main contributors to jet engine noise are fan noise and exhaust noise. Fan noise is usually dominated by a single frequency component that is a function of things like tip speed, blade geometry and number of blades. Exhaust noise is highly random and is pretty much as broad band frequency as you can get.
 
FredGarvin said:
The two main contributors to jet engine noise are fan noise and exhaust noise. Fan noise is usually dominated by a single frequency component that is a function of things like tip speed, blade geometry and number of blades. Exhaust noise is highly random and is pretty much as broad band frequency as you can get.
Thank you for the reply.
Note that my question wasn't about mechanisms and types of sounds emmited by the engine.
It's about to what extent that sound magnify effect of the shock wave of supersonic aircraft.
 

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