Johnson noise power distribution?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the derivation of the Johnson noise power distribution in LRC circuits, specifically the formula P(w)dw=(2/pi)ktdw presented in Feynman's lectures. The participants express confusion regarding the dimensional analysis of this equation, noting that it simplifies incorrectly to J/s=J. They clarify that thermal noise originates from resistors, while inductors and capacitors influence bandwidth. The conversation also touches on the relationship between black body radiation and thermal noise, emphasizing the role of harmonic oscillators in thermal equilibrium.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of LRC circuits and their components
  • Familiarity with Johnson-Nyquist noise theory
  • Knowledge of black body radiation principles
  • Basic concepts of thermal equilibrium and harmonic oscillators
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of Johnson noise power distribution in detail
  • Explore the relationship between thermal noise and black body radiation
  • Learn about the role of resistors in generating thermal noise
  • Investigate the impact of bandwidth in LRC circuits on noise characteristics
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, electrical engineers, and students studying thermal noise in circuits, as well as anyone interested in the principles of noise in electronic systems.

Fr33Fa11
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
I've been reading through the Feynman lectures (almost done with Volume 1), and I have been trying to prove everything to myself. I have a bit of a problem now though, in Chapter 41 on Brownian motion, Feynman shows what the voltage in an LRC circuit is due to thermal noise, and then says that the power distribution (with respect to angular velocity) is the following:
P(w)dw=(2/pi)ktdw
Now I have two problems. First, I do not understand where this comes from. At that point he says merely that it will be proven later, and the later proof is unhelpful and vague. The second problem is that the above formula does not check out with dimensional analysis. Power is in terms of J/s, kt is in terms of J, dw is /s, and cancels on both sides. Leaving
J/s=J
Is it wrong or am I missing something?
The later explanation that is given is that the noise generator in a circuit with resonance (adjustable) can be described as the signal received from an antenna due to thermal radiation emitted from the surrounding environment. This he shows (and I follow the explanation for this part) to be proportional to I(w)=w^2*(kt)/(pi^2c^2), and the correction for high temperature or low frequency is also shown, where I is the intensity of the radiation. It seems to me that Power=Area*Intensity, and so it would depend on the size of the antenna. Can anyone explain this?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Ok, I think I understand it. I found an explanation using two resistors in series and standing voltage waves. What I don't understand now is his derivation of P from the spectral distribution for a black body radiator. As far as I understand it, he says this:
1. The black body radiator can be considered to be an individual atom, containing an electron that is allowed to vibrate as a harmonic oscillator. This atom must gain and lose energy at the same rate in order for it to be at thermal equilibrium in a box full of gas.
2. The equation for the root mean square voltage in an LRC circuit is w^2*LkT
Both of those statements, as well as the subsequent derivation for a black body radiator, I agree with. The problem is how the radiator relates to the thermal noise.
 
Fr33Fa11 said:
Ok, I think I understand it. I found an explanation using two resistors in series and standing voltage waves. What I don't understand now is his derivation of P from the spectral distribution for a black body radiator. As far as I understand it, he says this:
1. The black body radiator can be considered to be an individual atom, containing an electron that is allowed to vibrate as a harmonic oscillator. This atom must gain and lose energy at the same rate in order for it to be at thermal equilibrium in a box full of gas.
2. The equation for the root mean square voltage in an LRC circuit is w^2*LkTBoth of those statements, as well as the subsequent derivation for a black body radiator, I agree with. The problem is how the radiator relates to the thermal noise.
Neither inductors nor capacitors can be sources of thermal noise. Only resistors can be the source of noise, but inductances and capacitors can define bandwidth. So it is better to write the noise voltage with an "R" in it.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
8K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K