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Alias

Main Question or Discussion Point

5th Marines enter Baghdad suburbs

WITH THE FIFTH MARINES, Iraq, April 8 (UPI) -- U.S. Marines rolled into northeastern suburbs of Baghdad Tuesday where thousands of cheering Iraqis yelled, "America, America, America," and "Bush, Bush, Bush." The Marines, led by Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, entered the area after fording a tributary of the Tigris River. Iraqis held up children, waved white flags and showed no hostile intent. The sincerity of their emotions was unquestionable. The crescendo of welcome increased as an Iraqi woman led the Marines to a children's prison where than more than 160 youngsters were freed.

I 'heard' that the reason they were imprisoned was because they refused to join some branch of Saddam's political party for youth. I also 'heard' that some had been in prison for as long as five years.

These are Iraqi children.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
russ_watters
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No reply required.
 
  • #3
BoulderHead
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  • #4
Alias
This quoted from cnn.com

"Iraq has not released details of military casualties. Abu Dhabi TV, quoting official Iraqi sources, reported that 1,252 civilians have been killed and 5,103 wounded. CNN cannot independently verify those figures."

These number seem to jive well with the following count...

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/bodycount.htm

And also the 120+ coalition casualties. You can see them here...

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/index.html

Anyone seen estimates on the number of Iraqi combatant casualties?
 
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  • #5
russ_watters
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Originally posted by Alias
These number seem to jive well with the following count...
One BIG problem with that site, Alias. Notice how the max and min mumbers are so close together (usually identical)? Thats because virtually *ALL* of the reports have one source: Iraqi state TV. And notice Iraqi state TV isn't listed as a news outlet.

I wonder: does Iraqi state tv differentiate between civilans killed by the coalition and civilians they killed themselves? Such as the civilians shelled and shot in Basra?

Also, that doesn't separate out government employees. I'm making an assumption here, but it would appear they are considered civilians. But a government employee (yes, even the janitor) is a combatant.
 
  • #6
damgo
Russ, I agree you 100% about the iraqbodycount.net site. But I don't know about classifying govt employees as "combatants"... since I work for a state university, that would make me a combatant, too, wouldn't it? Hmm.
 
  • #7
Alias
Well if those numbers are inflated, then the news is better. It still seems like relatively small numbers considering how much damage has been inflicted, and the goals of the operation.

Of course, I am not discounting ANY human loss. But as they say, "The needs of the many..."
 
  • #8
kyleb
not inflated, deflated.
 
  • #9
kat
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Originally posted by kyleb
not inflated, deflated.
Well, I've been waiting on the Red Cross or some other legitimate organization to give an accurate number..you must have info others have yet to see. Care to share a link or reference?
 
  • #10
damgo
BTW, Alias, no one seems to be speculating about Iraqi military casualties... I've been looking. Just from direct reports (X many killed in battle Y) I'd personally guess the number is 10,000 minimum, probably far higher.
 
  • #11
russ_watters
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Originally posted by damgo
But I don't know about classifying govt employees as "combatants"... since I work for a state university, that would make me a combatant, too, wouldn't it? Hmm.
No, AFAIK, state universities are only funded by the state, not run by it. Not sure though. Either way, they are not part of the command structure. Maybe I should qualify my statement: federal government employees.
not inflated, deflated.
You're not suggesting the Iraqis would UNDERstate the civilian casualty total, are you kyle?

damgo, I was thinking more on the order of 100,000-300,000 by now. Rumor has it we killed 250,000 in the first Gulf War.
 
  • #12
kyleb
Originally posted by kat
Well, I've been waiting on the Red Cross or some other legitimate organization to give an accurate number..you must have info others have yet to see. Care to share a link or reference?
oh no kat sorry, i was just reffering to damgo comment about classifying govt employees as "combatants"; i have no clue what a honest total would be.
 
  • #13
kat
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Kyleb-Ah, ok, thanks.
 

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