Kirchhoff's Rules Circuit Problem

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The discussion revolves around solving a circuit problem using Kirchhoff's rules, specifically for currents I1, I2, and I3 with given voltages. The initial equations and assumptions about loop direction were correct, but errors occurred during algebraic substitutions. A key mistake was misapplying the sign of a term when substituting I1 into the upper loop equation. After identifying the arithmetic error, the correct value for I3 was determined. The resolution highlights the importance of careful algebraic manipulation in circuit analysis.
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Homework Statement


Where V1 = 14V and V2 = 10V, solve for I1, I2, and I3.

21-22alt.gif


Homework Equations


DeltaV = IR
Sigma(I) at junction = 0
Sigma(DeltaV) of loop = 0

The Attempt at a Solution


I began by assuming clockwise direction of the loops, to determine the signs of the resistance to follow. I planned to solve by using the following three equations:
I3 = I1 + I2
(Upper loop) -14V - 10V + 6I1 - 4I2 = 0
(Lower loop) 10V - 2I3 - 6I1
I began by solving for I1 using the lower loop equation, resulting in I1 = 1.67 - 0.33I3
I plugged in the solution for I1 into the upper loop equation to solve for I2 in terms of I3, resulting in I2 = -8.5 - 0.5I3
I then plugged in the solutions for I2 and I1 into the first equation to solve for I3, which resulted in I3 = -3.7
The correct value for I3 should be -1A.

I know the equations I am starting with are correct, according to the answer. I don't understand where I'm going wrong with the algebra. It all looks like it should be work to me.
Please help. Thanks!
 
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The direction shown for the current I1 doesn't seem to be consistent with the assumption that the loop currents travel in a clockwise direction.
 
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The clockwise direction traversed is just used to find the signs of each resistance. If the current with a resistor goes with the clockwise direction previously chosen for the loop, the resistor has a negative voltage. If the current with a resistor goes opposite the clockwise direction chosen for the loop, the resistor has a positive voltage. This is why the upper loop equation is adding the 6I1 and subtracting the 4I2. They move in opposite directions within the upper loop, and a clockwise or counter clockwise direction is chosen to be consistent with signs within the loop, but from what I was taught, either direction can be chosen as long as you stick with it.

The equations used at the top of my attempt are absolutely correct according to the book. When solving for the variables is where I'm going wrong somehow. I don't understand why the algebra I'm doing is incorrect.
 
scharry03 said:
The clockwise direction traversed is just used to find the signs of each resistance. If the current with a resistor goes with the clockwise direction previously chosen for the loop, the resistor has a negative voltage. If the current with a resistor goes opposite the clockwise direction chosen for the loop, the resistor has a positive voltage. This is why the upper loop equation is adding the 6I1 and subtracting the 4I2. They move in opposite directions within the upper loop, and a clockwise or counter clockwise direction is chosen to be consistent with signs within the loop, but from what I was taught, either direction can be chosen as long as you stick with it.

The equations used at the top of my attempt are absolutely correct according to the book. When solving for the variables is where I'm going wrong somehow. I don't understand why the algebra I'm doing is incorrect.
Double check where you substitute I1 = 1.67 - 0.33 I3 into your Upper Loop equation. I think you've made an arithmetic mistake there.

6I1 = 10 - 2I3, according to your third equation.
 
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YES you are absolutely right, I accidentally made the 6 x 1.67 a negative, not a positive! I got the right answer now, thanks so much!
 
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

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