- #1
Ahmad Kishki
- 158
- 13
Recommend an easy going introduction to lagrangian and hamiltonian mechanics (for self study)
Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics
- Context: Classical
- Thread starter Ahmad Kishki
- Start date
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Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around recommendations for introductory texts on Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics, aimed at self-study. Participants share their opinions on various textbooks, highlighting their suitability for different levels of understanding and preferences in mathematical rigor.
Discussion Character
- Exploratory
- Technical explanation
- Debate/contested
Main Points Raised
- Some participants recommend "Classical Dynamics of Particles and Systems" by Marion and Thornton as a solid choice for advanced undergraduate classical mechanics.
- Others suggest Landau/Lifshits vol. 1, noting it is not "easy going" but valuable for those willing to engage with it.
- One participant mentions that nearly any senior-level undergraduate text will suffice, with Fowles/Cassiday also being a good option.
- Another participant expresses a preference for Scheck's book, particularly for mathematically advanced readers, and suggests Arnold for those familiar with differential geometry.
- Goldstein's book is mentioned as potentially beneficial for beginners, particularly the initial sections.
- David Tong's lecture notes are recommended as a free resource, with some participants agreeing on their accessibility.
- There is a contention regarding the value of Marion and Thornton's book, with some participants criticizing it for lacking physical insight and being filled with "ugly calculations."
- Arnold is discussed as a long-term recommendation, but some participants caution against it for those seeking an easier introduction.
- One participant shares their experience with Fowles/Cassiday and expresses interest in reading Goldstein next.
- Another participant reflects on their reading of Arnold, noting its complexity and the wild nature of its Appendixes, while also mentioning a desire to read Spivak's "Mechanics for Mathematicians."
- Lanczos's Classical Mechanics book is also mentioned as an interesting, lower-level option.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express a range of opinions on the recommended texts, with no consensus on which book is the best introductory resource. Some participants agree on the merits of certain texts while others challenge their suitability, indicating a mix of agreement and disagreement.
Contextual Notes
Participants note varying levels of mathematical rigor and physical insight in the recommended texts, which may affect their appropriateness for different readers. The discussion reflects personal experiences and preferences, highlighting the subjective nature of textbook recommendations.
- #2
Quantum Defect
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
- 495
- 116
I liked "Classical Dynamics of Particles and Systems" by Marion and Thornton (advanced undergraduate classical mechanics)Ahmad Kishki said:
- #3
- 24,488
- 15,059
Landau/Lifshits vol. 1 is great to. I'd not call it "easy going" however, but it's very worth to struggle through!
- #4
snatchingthepi
- 145
- 37
If you're just looking for an intro, nearly any senior-levle UG text will have what you want. The Marion/Thornton book is good. Fowles/Cassiday is also good. There are MANY to choose from. Go to your local university library (if there is one obviously) and just look through the books collected under "classical mechanics" or "analytical mechanics".
- #5
- 10,876
- 423
It's been a long time since I looked inside it, but I really liked Scheck. For the mathematically advanced reader (if you happen to know some differential geometry), the best choice is probably Arnold.
https://books.google.com/books?id=yUDo7VptDgIC
https://books.google.com/books?id=5OQlBQAAQBAJ
https://books.google.com/books?id=yUDo7VptDgIC
https://books.google.com/books?id=5OQlBQAAQBAJ
- #6
snatchingthepi
- 145
- 37
The first bits of Goldstein's book would probably be very beneficial.
- #7
- 22,827
- 14,868
I would start with David Tong's lecture notes on classical dynamics: http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/dynamics.htm
They are free, so absolutely no harm in looking.
They are free, so absolutely no harm in looking.
- #8
homeomorphic
- 1,773
- 130
Anything but that, unless you like meaningless formulas and calculations. If you don't like meaningless formulas and calculations, maybe Arnold if you can handle it.
- #9
snatchingthepi
- 145
- 37
I second David Tong's notes. They are free after all. homeomorphic's recommendation of Arnold may be premature since you are asking for an "easy-going" introduction (the entire book is written from the perspective of differential geometry).
The book by Marion and Thornton is an established undergraduate classic. So is the book by Fowles and Cassiday, or the book by Taylor. They are suitable for senior-level classical mechanics courses.
The book by Marion and Thornton is an established undergraduate classic. So is the book by Fowles and Cassiday, or the book by Taylor. They are suitable for senior-level classical mechanics courses.
- #10
homeomorphic
- 1,773
- 130
I was recommending Arnold in the long term. For now, I'm just unrecommending Marion and Thornton. Unless, of course, ugly calculations and very little physical insight is your thing.
- #11
snatchingthepi
- 145
- 37
According to someone, every textbook is full of ugly calculations and very little physical insight lol. But yes, I understand. Arnold is a scary book. Have you run through it? I just finished the whole of Fowles/Cassiday and will be moving onto Goldstein soonish.
- #12
homeomorphic
- 1,773
- 130
I think it's reasonably obvious to anyone who has read it that Marion and Thornton are not exactly Feynman when it comes to their physical insight. I have read most of Arnold, but the Appendixes get pretty wild, even for me (there's some good stuff in there if you ever want to understand differential geometry, though). But I have a PhD in math, so Arnold is kind of right up my alley. But I did start reading it in my first year of grad school, so it's not THAT bad. And I could have probably read it a bit earlier than that--as he says in the intro it's closer to a course for theoretical physicists than mathematicians.
One book I'd like to read when I get the chance that might possibly (can't say, since I haven't read it) fit the bill here is Spivak's Mechanics for Mathematicians book.
There's a free preview online.
http://www.math.uga.edu/~shifrin/Spivak_physics.pdf
As you can see from the preview, it's not really that math-oriented, although maybe in the later chapters, it is. I haven't read the finished product. Anyway, it looks like Spivak wrote a book that is somewhat similar to one I was thinking about writing. So, I'll have to read it, and if I like it enough, maybe I won't have to write my own, but just refer people to Spivak and Arnold.
Lanczos also has a Classical Mechanics book that's somewhat interesting and a bit lower level.
One book I'd like to read when I get the chance that might possibly (can't say, since I haven't read it) fit the bill here is Spivak's Mechanics for Mathematicians book.
There's a free preview online.
http://www.math.uga.edu/~shifrin/Spivak_physics.pdf
As you can see from the preview, it's not really that math-oriented, although maybe in the later chapters, it is. I haven't read the finished product. Anyway, it looks like Spivak wrote a book that is somewhat similar to one I was thinking about writing. So, I'll have to read it, and if I like it enough, maybe I won't have to write my own, but just refer people to Spivak and Arnold.
Lanczos also has a Classical Mechanics book that's somewhat interesting and a bit lower level.
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- #13
snatchingthepi
- 145
- 37
I understand better now what you mean about M/T. Thank you.
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