Lagrangian Mechanics: Solving Homework Problem on Two Cylinders

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a homogeneous hollow cylinder and a small solid cylinder rolling inside it, both subjected to gravitational forces. The task is to analyze the system using Lagrangian mechanics, focusing on constraints, generalized coordinates, and the equations of motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the identification of generalized coordinates and constraints in the system. There is an exploration of the relationship between the angular velocities of the two cylinders, particularly questioning the correct expression for the angular velocity of the solid cylinder.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights on the choice of generalized coordinates and the application of the Euler formula to derive relationships between the velocities. There is ongoing exploration of the rotational energy of the solid cylinder and the implications of the non-slipping condition.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the problem, particularly regarding the number of angles involved and the need for clarity in defining the system's dynamics. There is mention of specific equations and relationships that have been derived, but no consensus has been reached on the overall solution.

Sang-Hyeon Han
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Homework Statement


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A homogeneous hollow cylinder (mass M, radius R) is in the gravitational field and a horizontal axis through the center P rotatably mounted (central axis of the cylinder is fixed and can be rotated). A small, homogeneous solid cylinder (mass m, radius r) is rolling inside of the hollow cylinder without sliding. The two cylinder axis are parallel
O and P are spatially fixed points and A, B, C, S are body-fixed (i.e, on the cylinders) points so that in equilibrium: C to O, B to O, S on P O.
ψ: Deflection of the hollow cylinder of the equilibrium position.
χ: Deflection of the solid cylinder from the Equilibrium.
ϕ: Angular position of the centroid of the solid cylinder.
a) Find the constraints in this two-cylinder system and define the generalized coordinates.
b) Find the Lagrangian function.
c) What are the equations of motion?
d) Determine the natural frequency of oscillation in the case of small displacements.
this is the problem. I have to solve it.

Homework Equations


I know the generalized coordinates and constraints. I found the potential energy , translational kinetic energy and rotational energy for hollow cylinder, but I don't know the rotational energy for the solid cylinder.

The Attempt at a Solution


I thought that the angular velocity of solid cylinder is dχ/dt. so I tried to solve it, but it was not the correct answer. the solution said that dχ/dt-dϕ/dt is the angular velocity. why??
 
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Sang-Hyeon Han said:
I don't know the rotational energy for the solid cylinder.
Apply the Euler formula: ##\boldsymbol v_S=\boldsymbol v_A+\boldsymbol\omega\times\boldsymbol{AS}## to the solid cylinder. Here ##\boldsymbol v_A## is the velocity of a point of solid cylinder that lies on the hollow cylinder. This velocity is equal to the velocity of the corresponding point of the hollow cylinder. It is because of nonslipping. From this equation you can find angular velocity of the solid cylinder ##\boldsymbol \omega##
 
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You do not need so many angles. ##\psi,\varphi## are the good generalized coordinates.
I have got ##(R-r)\dot\varphi=-R\dot\psi-r\omega##
 
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zwierz said:
You do not need so many angles. ##\psi,\varphi## are the good generalized coordinates.
I have got ##(R-r)\dot\varphi=-R\dot\psi-r\omega##
Thank you so much.
 

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