Lagrangian with generalized positions

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the complexities of Lagrangian mechanics, particularly when the Lagrangian depends on generalized positions and velocities, such as in the context of electromagnetic fields. A key example provided is the Lagrangian for a particle in an electromagnetic field, expressed as $$L=\frac{m}{2} \dot{\vec{x}}^2 -q \Phi + \frac{q}{c} \vec{v} \cdot \vec{A}$$. The participants explore scenarios where the Hamiltonian does not equal the total energy of the system, particularly in cases involving time-dependent fields. The discussion highlights the importance of Noether's theorem in understanding energy conservation in these contexts.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Lagrangian mechanics and generalized coordinates
  • Familiarity with Hamiltonian dynamics and Noether's theorem
  • Knowledge of electromagnetic theory and potentials
  • Basic grasp of calculus, particularly partial derivatives
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  • Study the implications of Noether's theorem in classical mechanics
  • Learn about the role of gauge invariance in electromagnetic fields
  • Explore the relationship between Lagrangian and Hamiltonian formulations in non-conservative systems
  • Investigate examples of Lagrangians with explicit time dependence and their physical interpretations
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Physicists, particularly those specializing in classical mechanics, theoretical physics, and electromagnetism, as well as students seeking to deepen their understanding of Lagrangian and Hamiltonian dynamics.

  • #31
vanhees71 said:
Then I'd call ##H## the total energy of the particle, because then it's the conserved quantity related to the conserved quantity from time-translation invariance in the sense of Noether's theorem.
I would also. To me, the only reason that we are interested in energy is because it is conserved. So if there is a conserved quantity and a non-conserved quantity that both have claim to being "energy" then I will always pick the conserved one.
 
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  • #32
And when there is no hamiltonian at all to describe the system is there still a notion of energy?

i read this:
The Hamiltonian method describes and keeps track of the state of the system of particles and fields at a given time. In the new theory, there are no field variables, and every radiative process depends on contributions from the future as well as from the past! One is forced to view the entire process from start to finish. The only existing classical approach of this kind for particles makes use of the principle of least action, and Feynman’s thesis project was to develop and generalize this approach so that it could be used to formulate the Wheeler–Feynman theory (a theory possessing an action, but without a Hamiltonian). If successful, he should then try to find a method to quantize the new theory.
 
  • #33
Well, the Feynman-Wheeler absorber theory was not that an success. Particularly there has never been found a way to quantize it. A very nice treatment of various theories on radiation, including the absorber theory (modulo some typos) can be found in

A. O. Barut, Electrodynamics and classical theory of fields and particles, Dover Publications (1980)
 
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