Laminar to turbulent flow transition

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the transition from laminar to turbulent flow, particularly examining whether recent developments, specifically the Directed Percolation Model, provide a comprehensive solution to this longstanding issue in theoretical physics. Participants explore the implications of this model in the context of fluid dynamics, boundary layers, and turbulence theory.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of claims that the laminar to turbulent transition has been solved, expressing skepticism about the Directed Percolation Model's acceptance in the broader physics community.
  • Another participant suggests that turbulence remains an unresolved issue in physics, referencing historical figures like Landau and Feynman to emphasize the complexity of the topic.
  • A participant with expertise in laminar-turbulent transition notes that while the Directed Percolation Model may describe certain aspects of the transition process, it does not fully address how flows transition to turbulence or the mechanisms involved.
  • One contributor argues that the titles of recent papers imply that the Directed Percolation Model encompasses all relevant statistical information regarding the transition to turbulence, suggesting that it could provide a physical explanation for the phenomena observed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the completeness and impact of the Directed Percolation Model in explaining the transition to turbulence. There is no consensus on whether this model resolves the complexities associated with turbulence, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall understanding of turbulence onset.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in the current understanding of the transition process, noting that the Directed Percolation Model may not account for all aspects of turbulence, such as the initial conditions leading to turbulent spots and the energy cascade characteristic of turbulent flow.

Anashim
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Is it true that the laminar to turbulent flow transition has been finally solved? From what I've read, it seems to be well described by the Directed Percolation Model. I can hardly believe it since I haven't seen the news in the press (from my point of view, it's a long standing unsolved issue in Theoretical Physics).

https://www.nature.com/collections/rxsztdqblr/
 
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As someone who works in the field of laminar-turbulent transition (albeit in boundary layers, not confined flows like the Poiseuille and Couette flows contained here), I've not heard of any of this and it was from two years ago. In other words, it must not have been broadly impactful enough to make its way into use in any engineering sense, nor has it found its way into use (or even mention) in the broader fluid dynamics community. That said, I haven't read through all of this yet (and I've downloaded the papers, so I do intend to do so).

From what I can tell, none of this is claiming that transition and turbulence have been "solved". Rather, it seems to indicate that the transition process itself (i.e. the growth and propagation of turbulent spots) can be described using this directed percolation idea from statistical mechanics (a topic with which I am admittedly not very familiar). It doesn't seem to do much to address how the flow arrives at the point where the spots form, nor the actual process by which a flow otherwise dominated by stable and unstable waves transitions to one dominated by the energy cascade that is the hallmark of turbulence.

In other words, this seems to be a potentially interesting piece of a puzzle, but it certainly doesn't form the whole picture.
 
The title of the last two letters, namely,

'A universal transition to turbulence in channel flow'

'Directed percolation phase transition to sustained turbulence in Couette flow'

seem to indicate that the Directed Percolation Model contains all the relevant statistical information concerning the space-temporal transition to turbulence in the two analyzed flows.

If this is not an explanation of turbulence onset, then all the second order phase transition universality classes models are not physical descriptions of those phenomena either. In my opinion, they are physical explanations since you can caculate all critical exponents using either the Renormalization Group method (an approximate method) or solving the Conformal Field Theories that they define.
 
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