Large Scale <-> Small Scale failure of intuition.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between phenomena at large scales, such as black holes, and those at small scales, particularly quantum effects. Participants consider whether there is a connection between these two realms of physics and the implications for theories like superstring theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that intuitive logic fails at both large scales (black holes) and small scales (quantum effects), prompting questions about potential connections between these phenomena.
  • One participant references superstring theory, mentioning the concept of dimensions that vary inversely, proposing a relationship between size and dimensionality.
  • It is noted that the challenge in explaining black holes arises from the incompatibility of quantum theory and general relativity.
  • Several participants wonder why condensed particles do not exhibit general relativity effects similar to black holes, raising questions about the conditions necessary for such effects.
  • Mini black holes are discussed as a theoretical concept that could bridge quantum mechanics and general relativity, although their existence has not been confirmed and they would evaporate quickly.
  • One participant emphasizes that intuition is based on experiences with objects of specific sizes and velocities, suggesting that deviations from these experiences lead to failures in intuitive reasoning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints regarding the connection between large-scale and small-scale phenomena, with no consensus reached on the nature of this relationship or the implications of mini black holes.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of current theories and the need for a deeper understanding of quantum mechanics and general relativity to address the questions raised.

cdux
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If at very large scales of matter our intuitive logic fails to explain it (Black Holes) and at very small scales of matter untuition again fails (Quantum effects) then is there a connection between those two groups of phenomena?
 
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part of superstring theory talks about r and 1/r dimensions ie as one dimension gets larger the other gets smaller as in r and 1/r . So one would double in size and the other would 1/2 in size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstring_theory

see the extra dimensions section of the wiki article
 
Part of the problem of explaining what goes on inside black holes is the fact that quantum theory and general relativity must be used together and they don't mesh.
 
Now I wonder that since black holes create quantum considerations, why don't a small number of particles that just happen to be very condensed create general relativity sensitivities?
 
cdux said:
Now I wonder that since black holes create quantum considerations, why don't a small number of particles that just happen to be very condensed create general relativity sensitivities?

To answer this, you'll have to study QM, GR... in depth and then begin to formulate a theory that can answer your question and still stay consistent with existing theories and experiments.
 
cdux said:
Now I wonder that since black holes create quantum considerations, why don't a small number of particles that just happen to be very condensed create general relativity sensitivities?

In theory there are such things (mini black holes), but they have never been detected. Also, they would evaporate rapidly (depending on the mass).
 
The only connection is that your intuition is built on experiences with objects of a certain range of sizes traveling with a certain range of velocities. The farther you get from this, the worse your intuition gets.
 
mathman said:
In theory there are such things (mini black holes), but they have never been detected. Also, they would evaporate rapidly (depending on the mass).
Aha! Mini black holes might be the answer of a connection between Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity.
 
cdux said:
Aha! Mini black holes might be the answer of a connection between Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity.

Black holes of any size present a problem between quantum theory and general relativity because of the singularity at their center, though mini black holes are considerably more 'quantum' affected.
 

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