Schools Leave of absence from grad school

[eddiemon]

Hello all,

I would like some advice on a issue. I'm a senior undergrad determined to go to grad school for physics. Now my GPA is ok, and hopefully I won't completely bomb the GRE's - that's not what I'm worried about.

My problem is this: I'm an international student from a country that requires all adult male to serve a mandatory military service for a period up to 21 months. Now I have some leeway over when I choose to serve, but I've heard that it's more difficult to adjust the older you are, so I've been thinking I should serve after my first or second year in grad school.

So here are my questions. First of all, how feasible is it to ask for a leave of absence for 2 years in grad school? When would be a good time to do this? (For example, before/after I choose my research group and advisor, after being done with most of my courses) Should I mention this when I apply? Should I bite the bullet and just go before grad school and apply for grad school when I get out of the service?

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks a bunch.

 

[Jack21222]

I wonder if you'd be able to get a more "cushy" military job with an advanced degree in physics. Do they put their scientists and engineers on the front lines?

 

[G037H3]

I wonder if you'd be able to get a more "cushy" military job with an advanced degree in physics. Do they put their scientists and engineers on the front lines?

Mandatory military service basically means no wars.

 

[twofish-quant]

So here are my questions. First of all, how feasible is it to ask for a leave of absence for 2 years in grad school?

For this sort of military service, it's not going to be a problem.

When would be a good time to do this? (For example, before/after I choose my research group and advisor, after being done with most of my courses)

Probably a good time would be after you finish your coursework and selected your advisor but before you start going any heavy research.

Should I mention this when I apply? Should I bite the bullet and just go before grad school and apply for grad school when I get out of the service?

I wouldn't mention it since I don't think it's a relevant issue for admission.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Most schools do not ordinarily allow leaves of absence of more than one year. You are, in effect, asking them to hold a place for you when you are not using it - a place someone else could benefit from. Now, if this were a medical emergency, they may cut you some slack, but since you have the option of scheduling your military service before or after grad school, it's really for your own convenience.

 

[eddiemon]

Most schools do not ordinarily allow leaves of absence of more than one year. You are, in effect, asking them to hold a place for you when you are not using it - a place someone else could benefit from. Now, if this were a medical emergency, they may cut you some slack, but since you have the option of scheduling your military service before or after grad school, it's really for your own convenience.

Thanks for your response. I was hoping this would be an easier decision, but I agree that it wouldn't be fair to the school or other applicants if I get in and leave for two years. I know that the number of openings is limited, and I absolutely would not want someone else to be unable to pursue their dreams because of me. I guess I was just really looking forward to going to grad school for physics immediately after I graduate, (How can I not?) and serving after I finish grad school is not really an option (age limitation).

Oh well, can't always get what you want.

Thanks for your input as well, twofish-quant. I'll do some research and maybe email some schools to see what they say.

 

[proof]

seems like a strange policy. what are your reasons for not going before you apply/start grad school? that seems like it would be the best time to me so that you don't have to break up your phd at all. Doing it before the phd i think is better than after because after you might want to be starting with postdocs / going into academia or whatever. also another possibility is that if it is something you can put off until you are like 40 or 50 and you think by then you might be a citizen of another country then you don't have to worry about it at all. if you are planning to go back to live in this country i guess this isn't a good idea

 

[lisab]

Would you consider going into a Master's program first? You could complete that degree, do your service, then apply to PhD programs.

N.b.: I really have no experience with people taking this path, so I'd like to hear opinions of it.

 

[Andre]

eddiemon,

In my time (that is when I was young) this was a standard problem. So my advice is based on what I have seen happening. If the concription allows for a specific job in the service that allows you to keep up with your specialism, then it may be a good idea to finish studying first.

If not, it's probably best for your personal development to do service first and study afterwards and hence avoid the 21 months interruption that drains your knowledge. Moreover many people experience that studying gets easier when older. I certainly did. Finally, military service tends people to extend their boundaries and increases ones resilience, which can be useful for studying.

But obviously one would need a complete overview of the conditions for a sound decision.

 

[jtbell]

Would you consider going into a Master's program first? You could complete that degree, do your service, then apply to PhD programs.

In the US, physics PhD programs are basically combined MS+PhD. Separate MS programs are usually specialized "terminal masters" programs that are not intended to lead into a PhD program.

 

[eddiemon]

If not, it's probably best for your personal development to do service first and study afterwards and hence avoid the 21 months interruption that drains your knowledge.

After talking to some professors, I am inclined to agree.

Moreover many people experience that studying gets easier when older. I certainly did. Finally, military service tends people to extend their boundaries and increases ones resilience, which can be useful for studying.

That makes me feel a little better, I hope that is the case for me as well.

what are your reasons for not going before you apply/start grad school? that seems like it would be the best time to me so that you don't have to break up your phd at all. Doing it before the phd i think is better than after because after you might want to be starting with postdocs / going into academia or whatever.

I had a bit of a bumpy ride applying to undergrad, so I guess I was originally a little paranoid about not getting into grad school after I get out of the service. I'm less worried about this, now that I've talked to some people. Although I don't know if I'll be able to get good recommendation letters from all my professors.

also another possibility is that if it is something you can put off until you are like 40 or 50 and you think by then you might be a citizen of another country then you don't have to worry about it at all. if you are planning to go back to live in this country i guess this isn't a good idea

I haven't lived in my country of birth since I was 7 or 8 and I have little intention of living/working there in the future. But I don't think weaseling out of my legal duty is the honorable thing to do. (No offense to anyone who thinks otherwise.) The vast majority of adult males in my country do serve in some form or the other. I don't think it would be fair for me to hide overseas just because I can.

That being said, I will try my best to get a position where I will have access to books/computers, so my brain doesn't get too rusty. I've mostly been lurking here, but I will probably visit this forum a lot to ask questions. One of my professors (who is officially retired) kindly offered to help me in this regard via email as well. Hopefully this way I can still get into a decent physics program when I get out.

Thanks for your great advice everyone. All your responses are deeply appreciated. :)

 

[twofish-quant]

Also, I'm a little surprised at the experiences of Vanadium 50. I'm sure he is accurately reporting what he is seeing, but it's very different from what I've seen.

I've seen people get two year leaves of absence in graduate school for things that are on the order of seriousness as military service, and once you are in, and once you've demonstrated that you can do good work, people I've seen have been pretty flexible. So I've seen people get leaves of absences if they have a new baby, a nasty divorce, if they have a family crisis, and in one case, I've seen someone just take a two year break because they were totally burned out and needed some time off.

Maybe I just got lucky, and my department is unusually flexible in this sort of thing.