Light Clock Confusion in Special Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the thought experiment of a light clock in the context of special relativity, focusing on the implications of light's behavior in different reference frames and the nature of massless particles. Participants explore concepts such as time dilation, the constancy of the speed of light, and the frame-dependent nature of light's trajectory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the thought experiment assumes light has mass and inertia, suggesting that if light has no inertia, it should not travel diagonally from Alice's perspective.
  • Others argue that if light is emitted perpendicular to Bob's motion, it should hit the mirror in every frame of reference, raising questions about the implications of the second postulate of special relativity.
  • There is a discussion about the frame-dependent nature of light's trajectory, with one participant noting that a light beam traveling straight up in Alice's frame will not appear straight up in Bob's frame.
  • Some participants emphasize that special relativity is not a multiverse theory, asserting that different frames must agree on events, even if they assign different space and time coordinates.
  • A hypothetical scenario is presented where Bob himself is the target of a laser, suggesting that he cannot be killed in his own frame but may appear to be in another frame, illustrating the complexities of simultaneity in relativity.
  • Another participant introduces a thought experiment involving a bomb attached to the mirror, stating that all observers would agree on whether the bomb explodes, although they would likely disagree on the timing of the event.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and uncertainties regarding the implications of light's behavior in different frames and the nature of massless particles. There is no consensus on the assumptions made in the thought experiment or the interpretation of the second postulate of special relativity.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the implications of massless particles and the frame-dependent nature of light, as well as the unresolved aspects of simultaneity and event agreement in different reference frames.

subzero0137
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When students are first introduced to special relativity, the first thing they are taught is the derivation of the gamma factor and time-dilation, and it goes something like this:

Suppose there are 2 observers in space, let's call them Alice and Bob. Let's assume Alice is stationary from our perspective, and Bob, who is holding a light clock in his hands, is traveling past Alice at some finite speed. Since the speed of light is constant, the time taken for the light beam to bounce between the 2 mirrors is longer for Bob from Alice perspective...

But doesn't this thought experiment assume that light has mass, and therefore inertia? Because if light has no inertia, how can it travel diagonally (to match Bob's speed) from Alice point of view? If light is emitted in a direction perpendicular to the direction of motion of Bob, shouldn't the light beam go straight up, and miss the mirror that has moved ahead?
 
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subzero0137 said:
If light is emitted in a direction perpendicular to the direction of motion of Bob, shouldn't the light beam go straight up, and miss the mirror that has moved ahead?
If the light hits the mirror in the rest frame of the clock, then it must hit the mirror in every other frame of reference.
 
A.T. said:
If the light hits the mirror in the rest frame of the clock, then it must hit the mirror in every other frame of reference.

Is that to do with the 2nd postulate of SR, which states that the laws of physics shouldn't change in any inertial reference frame? But why assume this to be the case, especially since light has no mass and shouldn't be subject to Newton's 1st law ∴ it shouldn't be traveling along with the rocket?

I think the source of my confusion is the idea of massless particles having inertia.
 
subzero0137 said:
If light is emitted in a direction perpendicular to the direction of motion of Bob, shouldn't the light beam go straight up, and miss the mirror that has moved ahead?
The direction of a light beam is also frame-dependent. This effect is called aberration. A light beam that is traveling straight up in Alice's frame will not travel straight up in Bob's frame.
 
subzero0137 said:
Is that to do with the 2nd postulate of SR, which states that the laws of physics shouldn't change in any inertial reference frame?
It is far more basic: SR is not a multiverse theory. Different frames must agree on the events that occur, they are merely allowed to assign different space & time coordinates to those events.

Assume it is a high power laser and replace the mirror with Bob himself as target. He can't be killed in his frame, but survive in Alice's frame. There is only one Bob.
 
Last edited:
A.T. said:
If the light hits the mirror in the rest frame of the clock, then it must hit the mirror in every other frame of reference.

subzero0137 said:
Is that to do with the 2nd postulate of SR, which states that the laws of physics shouldn't change in any inertial reference frame?

A.T. said:
It is far more basic: SR is not a multiverse theory. Different frames must agree on the events that occur, they are merely allowed to assign different space & time coordinates to those events.

Assume it is a high power laser and replace the mirror with Bob himself as target. He can't be killed in his frame, but survive in Alice's frame. There is only one Bob.

Or attach a bomb to the mirror, and set it up so that if light hits the mirror, the bomb explodes. All observers agree on whether the bomb explodes or not, at some point in time, although they probably disagree on when it happens because each has his own time coordinate.
 

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