Lightning compared to piezo electric element

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the construction and debugging of a lightning detector that measures electromagnetic signals emitted by lightning bolts. Participants explore methods for generating a test signal using a piezoelectric element and seek to estimate the distance at which an average lightning bolt would need to be to produce a comparable energy level in the antenna.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes using a piezoelectric element from an electric lighter, generating 20 to 25 kV and producing a spark of about 3 mm, and questions how far away a lightning bolt would need to be to produce similar energy in the antenna.
  • Another participant suggests that the terminology should be clarified, noting that a lightning strike emits an electromagnetic pulse rather than a "charge," and advises on the importance of understanding basic concepts before proceeding with measurements.
  • A participant acknowledges the complexity of the question but expresses hope that someone might provide an estimation method.
  • One participant proposes a proportional relationship based on the electric field strength required for air to become conductive, providing a calculation approach to estimate voltage at a distance of 2 meters.
  • Another participant discusses calibration challenges and suggests using a wideband detector with a peak sensing circuit, recommending calibration with low-level signals and the use of a log amplifier for a wide range of signal values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on terminology and the approach to estimating the distance for lightning detection. While some propose calculations based on electric field strength, others emphasize the need for foundational understanding before making measurements. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that estimations and averages will be necessary, and there are challenges related to calibration and the definitions of terms used in the discussion.

mekhall
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
I'm building (or rather, debugging) a lightning detector that detects the electromagnetic charge emitted by a lightning bolt.

I need a good way to generate a little lightning as a test signal and I'm currently using a the piezo electric part of an electric lighter which generates a small spark.

The piezo electric element generates about 20 to 25 kV and produces a spark that is about 3 mm long. If I hold it two meters from my antenna, at what distance does an average lightning bolt need to be to produce the same amount of energy in my antenna?

Of course a lot of estimations and averages will need to be used, but roughly?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You need to sort out your terms of reference, I think. A lightning strike 'emits' an EM pulse and not a "charge". You can save yourself a lot of time and effort by learning more basics before launching out on haphazard measurements, imo.
 
Pulse is probably the word yes.

I know it is a difficult question to answer but someone might know how to make such an estimation, I hope.
 
The relationship will be proportional, assuming the air becomes conductive at the same electric field strength. This is about 3 million V/m, or 30,000 V/mm. Your 20-25kV was probably able to generate a current over a larger 3 mm due to geometric considerations (the field is concentrated near sharp edges of a conductor).

To find the voltage for 2m, just multiply 25[kV] by 2[m]/3[mm]
 
Calibration can be difficult but what you need is a wideband detector with a peak sensing circuit. Something along the lines of a peak programme audio circuit. Having calibrated it with low level signals, you just put a large attenuator at its input to measure high levels.
[Edit: a log amp would be useful for showing a wide range of signal values (dB scale).]
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
5K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
8K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
25K
Replies
2
Views
6K
Replies
4
Views
17K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
4K