Litz conductor surrounded by drain wires = huge capacitance?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electrical characteristics of Litz conductors surrounded by drain wires, particularly focusing on capacitance and impedance in underground power transmission cables. Participants explore the implications of these characteristics in terms of inductance and overall cable performance.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern that the grounded drain wires adjacent to the conductor could lead to significant capacitance and impedance issues.
  • Others question whether the situation is analogous to a conductor in a conduit run and reference cable specifications to support their points.
  • One participant suggests that the shunt capacitance might be low, possibly only a matter of picofarads per meter, and not significantly worse than the capacitance to the surrounding Earth when buried.
  • A participant raises a question about the nature of impedance in relation to capacitance, specifically the confusion surrounding negative impedance values.
  • Another proposes that the inductance of a Litz wire might always exceed any capacitance, potentially leading to lower overall impedance.
  • One participant argues that the inductance per meter of the cable would be very low, and questions the assumption that Litz wire has a large inductance, suggesting it consists of many parallel inductances.
  • Another participant mentions the need to calculate these effects and speculates that the drain wires might serve to provide capacitance to counteract inductance.
  • It is noted that underground cables generally exhibit more capacitance than inductance, leading to a worse power factor compared to overhead cables.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of capacitance and inductance in the context of Litz conductors and drain wires, with no clear consensus reached on the implications of these factors.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference specific cable specifications and transmission line equations, indicating that the discussion may depend on particular definitions and assumptions about cable design and performance.

chopficaro
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this type of cable is used to transfer power underground:
http://www.mahanson.com/images/Hendrix%20Cable.jpg
see the drain wires? i would think that those would be a huge problem because they are grounded and are right next to the conductor, i suppose any shielding would have this problem. the capacitance and thus the impedance of the wire must be HUGE.
 
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Would this be any different than a conductor in a conduit run?

Have you looked at the cables specs?

Here's their catalog: http://www.hendrix-wc.com/hendrix/pdf/hendrix_catalog.pdf"

Most of the cables listed have inductive reactance specifications.
 
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chopficaro said:
this type of cable is used to transfer power underground:
http://www.mahanson.com/images/Hendrix%20Cable.jpg
see the drain wires? i would think that those would be a huge problem because they are grounded and are right next to the conductor, i suppose any shielding would have this problem. the capacitance and thus the impedance of the wire must be HUGE.

Huge shunt capacitance means low impedance, afaik.
But only a matter of pF per metre. And not a lot worse than the capacitance to the surrounding Earth if the cable is buried.
 
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is that because the impedance of a capacitor is NEGATIVE -j/wc ?
thats a little confusing because it begs the question

which is greater
j
or
-j
 
or maybe it is the case that the inductance of a litz wire is always greater than any capacitance, so that any capacitance will counteract the inductance for a smaller impedance?
 
The inductance per metre would be very very low (a series element) and the shunt reactance would be very high for such a small capacitance.

Why should the litz wire have a large inductance? It would be the inductance of a lot of parallel inductances, surely?

What is the intended function of the 'drain' wires apart from providing a reliable and defined path to ground if the cable gets squashed?
 
i know these effects are small but i have to calculate them. maybe the purpose of the drain wired is to provide capacitance to counteract inductance
 
But as I said, there is plenty of capacitance when the cable is underground - with or without the drain wires. The capacitative effect is more than the inductive effect - underground cables have a worse power factor than overheads.

Use the transmission line equations and you will see what I mean.
 

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