News Look at those freedom fighters go

[member 5645]

Look at those freedom fighters go!

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6126892

A heavily armed gang seized up to 400 hostages at a Russian school near Chechnya Wednesday and threatened to kill 50 children for any member of their group killed, a senior local official said.

Those Chechens are obviously just trying to get equal treatment. I wish them the best of luck in their pursuits.

 

[Adam]

Equal rights and responsibilities is a great thing.

 

[member 5645]

Equal rights and responsibilities is a great thing.

They are fighting Imperialistic Russian Aggression!

 

[JohnDubYa]

Che! Che!

 

[kat]

I just can't quite seem to get a hold of the intent of this thread. I can't see anything humorous or justifiable in capturing a school of small children and murdering them. I also don't see how the Chechens would believe this is going to help their cause...
and I'm disgusted in seeing the "right" rubbing their hands together with glee. I mean wtf?

 

[member 5645]

I just can't quite seem to get a hold of the intent of this thread. I can't see anything humorous or justifiable in capturing a school of small children and murdering them. I also don't see how the Chechens would believe this is going to help their cause...
and I'm disgusted in seeing the "right" rubbing their hands together with glee. I mean wtf?

'Wtf' is you getting the thread intentions wrong.The sarcasm being stated is the exact responses that are given with car bombs going off in Iraq, and killing American soldiers. "Those Iraqis, are true patriots, fighting against American aggression. They called us terrorists during out revolution, now we call the freedom fighters in Iraq terrorists"
Amazing, that when it goes down NOT involving the USA, suddenly no one wants to back the scum that is killing women, children, and other innocent civilians.

 

[Gokul43201]

When you talk of "killing women, children and innocent civilians", who are you referring to (besides the Chechens) ?

 

[Artman]

'Wtf' is you getting the thread intentions wrong.The sarcasm being stated is the exact responses that are given with car bombs going off in Iraq, and killing American soldiers. "Those Iraqis, are true patriots, fighting against American aggression. They called us terrorists during out revolution, now we call the freedom fighters in Iraq terrorists"
Amazing, that when it goes down NOT involving the USA, suddenly no one wants to back the scum that is killing women, children, and other innocent civilians.

Sorry, I think I missed the event where people from the USA held guns to the head of 50 children to get their way. Was that in our war for independence, I missed that in history class? Did we take a school full of British children hostage and threaten them with death? We were guerilla fighters, not terrorists.

I see no comparison between this event and a declared war in Iraq. Children do get hurt and this is regretable, but not intentional. Even if these children survive this ordeal, they will still have the scars of thsi terrorist activity on their remaining lives.

What does this event have to do with the USA at all (other than our concern for the children)?

 

[member 5645]

When you talk of "killing women, children and innocent civilians", who are you referring to (besides the Chechens) ?

Take your pick of any of the "freedom fighters" that so many on the internet seem to rationalize (I didn't say support their actions, atleast not always).

The constant IED's and car bombs in Iraq. The Car bombs in Afghanistan. The suicide bombs in Israel.

A Palestinian walks into a family restaurant, blows it up. Comments start coming in about how they are forced into this, and are just fighting "Zionist Aggession". Somehow that was Israel's fault. It's the standard rhetoric.
Where is this with the Chechens? Why is it that you take the US (and hey, let's face it, the people using the 'freedom fighter' rhetoric see Israel and hte USA as one in the same - that's another thread) out of the equation and the comments stop rolling in. I can't find anyone on any board that I'm on willing to sympathize with the Chechens. I fail to understand what seems to be a double standard, with the target being to demonize the actions of the US/Israel.

I personally think that they are terrorists across the board, and I have no qualms about having any/all of them killed.

 

[Gokul43201]

Sorry, I think I missed the event where people from the USA held guns to the head of 50 children to get their way. Was that in our war for independence, I missed that in history class? Did we take a school full of British children hostage and threaten them with death? We were guerilla fighters, not terrorists.

I see no comparison between this event and a declared war in Iraq. Children do get hurt and this is regretable, but not intentional. Even if these children survive this ordeal, they will still have the scars of thsi terrorist activity on their remaining lives.

What does this event have to do with the USA at all (other than our concern for the children)?

Artman, you've completely misread Phatminkey, as he did, me.

Phatmonkey is comparing the Chechens to the Iraqi militia groups, NOT the US forces.

Phatmonkey, I was trying to raise just this point : someone on the other side of the fence (from you) might think you were referring to the US (coalition) forces when you talked of killing women/children/innocent civilians.

 

[member 5645]

Artman, you've completely misread Phatminkey, as he did, me.

Phatmonkey is comparing the Chechens to the Iraqi militia groups, NOT the US forces.

Phatmonkey, I was trying to raise just this point : someone on the other side of the fence (from you) might think you were referring to the US (coalition) forces when you talked of killing women/children/innocent civilians.

Yes, I admit too much sarcasm combined with quoting rhetoric made for a confusing situation, so I spelled it all out above :)

 

[Artman]

Yes, I admit too much sarcasm combined with quoting rhetoric made for a confusing situation, so I spelled it all out above :)

Oops, I think we are in agreement. I do see a similarity between car bombings and intentionally harming or threatening children and innocent civilians.

 

[Gokul43201]

I think it may be more about finding a group of people that identify with the cause of the terrorists.

In the case of Israel or Kashmir, the vast majority of Muslims around the world sympathize with the cause of the terrorists. This large group of people have influence over decision making and opinion simply by virtue of being a large group of people.

Now who strongly sympathizes with the cause of the Chechens ? Answer : More Chechens...and very few others.

But the role of the US is very relevant in shaping opinion. With the current worldwide dislike (justified or not) of US foreign policy (and as a result, the US itself), it becomes easy to think "the enemy of the enemy is a friend"... and so forth. And I kid you not when I talk of this 'dislike'...it's everywhere, among liberals, moderates and conservatives all over the world.

 

[russ_watters]

When you talk of "killing women, children and innocent civilians", who are you referring to (besides the Chechens) ?

The Americans dying in Iraq these days get the most press in the US, but the vast majority of those dying at the hands of the "insurgents" are Iraqi civilians.

I, too see a double standard based on the group doing the terrorism. The "one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter" cliche that goes around a lot is, in fact, a claim that the double standard is right. It isn't. A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. There is no basis for saying a goup of Chechens that kills kids in a school are terrorists and a group of "Palestinians" that kills kids on a bus are freedom fighters.

Goku, your point is well taken, but what does it mean? It means that people are blinded by their biases into buying into a double-standard. It means people allow their feelings to get in the way of their logic and morality. Its a big, big problem.

 

[Adam]

Absolutely. Those who deliberately target innocent civilians are terrorists, regardless of any other factors.