Loop-the-loop on frictionless track, spring-powered

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a toy car launched from a compressed spring, traveling around a loop-the-loop on a frictionless track. The problem includes calculating the compression of the spring, the car's speed at a certain height, and the effects of friction on the car's maximum height.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between potential energy stored in the spring and the kinetic energy of the car. There are attempts to calculate the spring compression and the car's speed at different points, with some questioning the use of energy conservation principles.

Discussion Status

Several participants have shared their calculations and reasoning, with some expressing uncertainty about the methods used. There is a mix of attempts to clarify the energy transformations involved and to derive the necessary values for further calculations. While some participants seem to reach conclusions, there is no explicit consensus on the correctness of the approaches taken.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenges posed by the friction in the latter part of the problem, particularly in calculating the energy lost due to friction. The original poster indicates difficulty in progressing without knowing certain values, which impacts their ability to solve subsequent questions.

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Homework Statement


A toy car of mass 0.300 kg is shot out of a compressed horizontal spring (A), and then travels around a loop-the-loop along a frictionless track. The spring has a spring constant k = 900 N/m, and 3.50 J of energy was stored in the spring by compressing it.

(1) How far was the spring compressed to store 3.5 J of energy in it?
(2) What is the speed of the car as it passes point B, which is 0.400 m above point A?
(3) How high above the original position does the car go before stopping (point C)?
(4) Suppose now that the track has some friction, and that it is observed that the car's height at point C is only 80% of the height it would reach in the absence of friction (i.e. in Question #3). How much energy did friction remove on the trip from A to C?


Homework Equations


KE = (1/2)mv2
PE = mgh
PES = (1/2)kx2


The Attempt at a Solution


(1) PE = (1/2)kx2, so 3.5 = (0.5)(900)x2. Solving for x, x = 0.088. So this is the distance the spring was compressed in order to store 3.5 J.
(2) To be honest, I have attempted this about 10 different ways, none of which were correct. I believe that mgh = (1/2)mv2 could be used in some way, but am not sure of how to use this, because I don't know what the maximum height would be. (1/2)mv12 = (1/2)mv22 + mgh could be useful as well, if either velocity was known. Perhaps the velocity can be figured from the amount of energy that was stored in the spring.
(3) & (4) Without knowing the answer to #2, it is difficult/impossible to even get started on these ones. Please advise. Thank you all in advance.
 
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(2) Another attempt... PE(spring) = PE = (1/2)mx2 ==> (1/2)(900)(0.088^2) = 3.4848. Plugging this value of PE into PE = (1/2)mv2, I get V(initial) = 4.82. Plugging this into (1/2)mV^2 = (1/2)mV^2 + mgh, I get that the velocity at the top of the ramp = 3.92 m/s. Is this sensible?
 
fysics4liefe said:
(2) Another attempt... PE(spring) = PE = (1/2)[strike]m[/strike]k[/color]x2 ==> (1/2)(900)(0.088^2) = 3.4848. Plugging this value of PE into PE = (1/2)mv2, I get V(initial) = 4.82.
yes, this is good
Plugging this into (1/2)mVinitial[/color]^2 = (1/2)mVfinal[/color]^2 + mgh, I get that the velocity at the top of the ramp = 3.92 m/s. Is this sensible?
using h = 0.4 m, you get the velocity at that point B. To get the max height when the car stops, what is v_final and what is h at that point C?
 
PhanthomJay said:
yes, this is good using h = 0.4 m, you get the velocity at that point B. To get the max height when the car stops, what is v_final and what is h at that point C?

Okay, got it now, thank you. So the energy at the highest point is the sum of KE + PE, which is (1/2)mv2 + mgh. Since v = 0 at the highest point, (1/2)mv^2 = 0. So kinetic energy is zero (obviously, since we aren't moving). So the total energy (which is conserved on frictionless track) is equal to the PE, mgh. (0.3 kg)(9.8 m/s^2)(h) = 3.4848. Solving for h at v=0, we get h = 1.185 meters, which is the max height (correct significant figures notwithstanding).

Which enables us to solve question 4. 80% of previous max. height is 0.952 meters, since (0.8)(1.185) = 0.952. Plugging this into mgh, we get a total PE of 2.7988 J. On frictionless track, this number was 3.4848. So, 3.488 J (frictionless energy) - 2.7988 J (energy after friction) = 0.69 J.

Does that all look sound? Thank you, PhanthomJay. It is much appreciated.
 

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