Lorentz transf. of a spherical wave in Euclidean space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the transformation of a standing spherical wave in the context of Lorentz transformations, specifically examining how such a wave can still satisfy the wave equation when boosted. The scope includes theoretical considerations of wave equations and transformations in Euclidean space.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a standing spherical wave solution and claims that it can be transformed using Lorentz-like transformations in Euclidean space.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the initial framing of the discussion, asserting that it is fundamentally about Lorentz transformations as symmetries of the wave equation.
  • A participant suggests using the chain rule to demonstrate invariance, arguing that the wave function itself is not central to the transformation, but rather how it appears to a boosted observer.
  • Some participants emphasize that both space and time coordinates are transformed, noting the implications for momentum in different frames.
  • Another participant clarifies that while the spherical standing wave has zero momentum in one frame, it carries momentum in the boosted frame, but insists that this is not a coordinate transformation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the transformations involved and whether the discussion is fundamentally about Lorentz transformations. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the transformations or the role of the wave function in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the implications of the transformations on the wave function or the nature of the coordinates used in the analysis. There are indications of missing assumptions regarding the definitions of the transformations and the context of the wave equation.

Rumo
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This thread is not about the lorentz invariance of the wave equation: \frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2\Phi}{\partial t^2}-\Delta \Phi = 0

It is about an interesting feature of a standing spherical wave:
A\frac{\sin(kr)}{r}\cos(wt)

It still solves the wave equation above, when it is boosted in the following way:
z' = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}(z-vt)
and
t' = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}(t-\frac{vz}{c^2})
This means that a transformation, which looks like the lorentz transformation, is needed for a moving standing spherical wave to still solve the wave equation. It is important to notice, that this takes place in an Euclidean space!

Source: http://arxiv.org/abs/1408.6195

I would like to know, what you think about this. Including the paper above. The paper was written for educational purposes, because it shows, that the lorentz transformation can arise in an Euclidean space.
 
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I calculated this with Mathematica. I would have uploaded the notebook, but I can't.
Hence I made a screenshot. You can calculate this easily with any program of your choice.
Just replace c with w/k.
 

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I only don't understand the first sentence in #1. It's of course all about the Lorentz transformation, which is a symmetry of the wave equation.

[OT for the admins] Why can't one upload an nb (Mathematica notebook) file? Wouldn't this be very nice for those among us, who have Mathematica at hand? I never thought to upload a Mathematica notebook so far, but it's a nice idea, isn't it?
 
vanhees71 said:
I only don't understand the first sentence in #1. It's of course all about the Lorentz transformation, which is a symmetry of the wave equation.

Thanks for your reply!
Isn't the lorentz transformation transforming the spatial and time coordinates? Hence, I would use the chain rule to show the invariance. The Φ would not be important at all, just a solution to the wave equation. It would describe how Φ would look like from the point of view of a boosted observer!?

But in this case the spatial and time coordinates are not transformed.

\Phi = A\frac{\sin(k\sqrt{x^2+y^2+(\gamma(z-vt))^2})}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2+(\gamma(z-vt))^2}}\cos(w\gamma(t-\frac{vz}{c^2})
is a solution of the wave equation. v is the velocity of the 'standing' spherical wave, relative to the e.g. ideal gas.
 
Both space and time are transformed. The spherical standing wave carries 0 momentum in the old frame and a momentum in z-direction in the new one.
 
vanhees71 said:
Both space and time are transformed. The spherical standing wave carries 0 momentum in the old frame and a momentum in z-direction in the new one.

But in this case, it is not a coordinate transformation!
It is a moving spherical standing wave.
I still use the same coordinates to differentiate.
x, y, z, t. not x, y, z', t'!
 

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