Magnetic field in plane of ring, outside (verify please?)

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the magnetic field produced by a current-carrying ring lying in the xy-plane, specifically at a point on the y-axis outside the ring. The participants explore the complexities of the calculation using Biot-Savart's law and compare it to a simplified model using a square loop.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their process for calculating the magnetic field on the y-axis using Biot-Savart's law and expresses confusion over the complexity of the integral involved.
  • The participant notes that their calculation involves linking the variables through trigonometric relationships and expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their approach.
  • Another participant points out the necessity of including the sine of the angle between the vectors in the cross product, indicating a potential oversight in the original calculation.
  • A subsequent reply acknowledges the oversight regarding the angles and seeks clarification on how to determine the angle between the vectors.
  • There is a discussion about the simplification of the ring to a square, with one participant questioning the rationale behind this approach given the challenges of the integral.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the original calculation, and multiple viewpoints regarding the approach to the problem and the simplification to a square remain. Uncertainty exists about the proper inclusion of angles in the calculations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of integrating the magnetic field contributions from the ring and the potential for errors in applying Biot-Savart's law, particularly regarding vector relationships. The integral's difficulty is noted, but no specific resolution is provided.

Nick89
Messages
553
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I was hoping someone can verify this for me.

In uni today we had to calculate the magnetic field of a ring of current, lying in the xy-plane. First we had to calculate it on the z-axis (perpendicular to the ring) which was easy.
Then we had to calculate it on the y-axis (in the plane of the ring, outside of the ring). Because this was apparently too hard however, we had to 'simplify' the ring into a square, which made the calculation almost childlishly easy...

I was wondering now why they thought it was so hard... I tried to calculate it with an actual ring and the only difficulty I had was to calculate the integral, which was pretty ugly when calculated with Maple...

If someone can verify my calculation for me please that would be great.



Consider the following diagram, a loop (blue) with radius R lying in the xy-plane with a current I traveling in the direction of the vector dl.
2wdtwua.jpg


I want to calculate the magnetic field on the point P lying on the x-axis, a distance x from the origin, using Biot-Savart's law:
d \vec{B} = \frac{ \mu_0 }{4 \pi} \frac{I d\vec{l} \times \hat{r}}{r^2} where \hat{r} is the direction of \vec{r}.

Since r is dependend on \theta, I have to find a way to link them.

What I did was:
a = R \sin\theta \text{ , } b = R \cos\theta
r^2 = b^2 + (x-a)^2 = (R \cos\theta)^2 + (x - R\sin\theta)^2

Finally, (the part where I'm not entirly sure), I figured dl = R d\theta for a small angle d\theta.

This finally yields (the direction is obvious):
B = \frac{ \mu_0 I}{4 \pi} \int_0^{2 \pi} \frac{ R d\theta }{(R \cos\theta)^2 + (x - R\sin\theta)^2}


For the integral, I didn't even try to do it manually but had Maple do it. The answer was:
\int_0^{2 \pi} \frac{ R d\theta }{(R \cos\theta)^2 + (x - R\sin\theta)^2}=-2\,iR \left( \ln \left( {\frac {i \left( {x}^{2}+{R}^{2} \right) }{-<br /> {x}^{2}+{R}^{2}}} \right) -\ln \left( {\frac {-i \left( {x}^{2}+{R}^{<br /> 2} \right) }{-{x}^{2}+{R}^{2}}} \right) \right) \left( -{x}^{2}+{R}^<br /> {2} \right) ^{-1}
(Yikes...)


Am I right on this? If so, I can't understand why we had to imagine the ring as a square (apart from the horrible integral)... It made the calculation completely different (upper and lower portion of the square cancel, remaining two lines are simply two lines, add up the fields...)
And we get horrible integrals all the time, the question just states that we don't have to calculate it then...

So yeah, thanks if anyone can verify or tell me where I went wrong!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You have to include the sine of the angle between r and dl in the cross product.
 
You're right, they're not always perpendicular, completely forgot about that!

So how could I find the angle?
 
Use either trig or cartesian coords.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K
Replies
92
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K