Magnets in Cars-Coils in Roads

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of using magnets in cars to generate power through coils embedded in roads. Participants explore the feasibility, efficiency, and implications of this idea, addressing both theoretical and practical aspects of energy generation in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that magnets in cars passing over coils would generate power, but emphasize that this would not be free energy, as the energy would come from additional fuel burned to overcome resistance.
  • There is a question about the source of resistance: whether it arises from the attraction of the car's magnet to the coil, the coil resisting the magnet's motion, or both.
  • One participant explains that induced current in the coil generates a reverse magnetic field that opposes the motion of the magnet, creating resistance similar to that in a rotating generator.
  • Another participant suggests that placing these systems at stop lights or freeway exits could be more efficient, as vehicles are already slowing down, though they acknowledge it would not be free energy.
  • There is mention of existing technologies, such as regenerative braking in hybrids, which recover energy from slowing vehicles.
  • Concerns are raised about the added weight of such systems on vehicles requiring more fuel, and the potential inefficiency of energy recovery systems like speed bumps.
  • A participant uses an analogy of marbles in a tube to explain the concept of voltage and energy transfer, noting that generating pressure in a system requires energy, which would increase fuel consumption.
  • Discussion includes skepticism about the overall efficiency of cars compared to power generation facilities, which are designed for optimal performance without the variability of car operation.
  • Concerns are expressed about the infrastructure costs and energy required for construction potentially outweighing the energy produced over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that while the concept of generating power from magnets in cars is interesting, it is not free energy and raises questions about efficiency and practicality. However, multiple competing views remain regarding the feasibility and effectiveness of such systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss various assumptions about energy transfer, resistance, and efficiency without resolving the complexities involved in the proposed systems. The discussion highlights the need for further exploration of practical implementations and their economic viability.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring innovative energy generation methods, the efficiency of hybrid vehicles, and the practical applications of electromagnetic principles in transportation systems.

ruko
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Magnets in cars passing over coils in roads would definitely generate power. There are a few people who think this would be free power. I don't know how to properly explain why it would NOT be free power. Can someone help?
 
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ruko said:
Magnets in cars passing over coils in roads would definitely generate power. There are a few people who think this would be free power. I don't know how to properly explain why it would NOT be free power. Can someone help?

The energy transferred to the coils would come from extra gas burned to overcome the extra resistance to motion. You are correct, there is no free energy.
 
berkeman said:
The energy transferred to the coils would come from extra gas burned to overcome the extra resistance to motion. You are correct, there is no free energy.

Just to be clear, would this resistance come from the attraction of the car's magnet to the coil? Or is it that the coil is resisting the 'charging' by the car's magnet (it comes from relative motion)? Or both?
 
James Leighe said:
Just to be clear, would this resistance come from the attraction of the car's magnet to the coil? Or is it that the coil is resisting the 'charging' by the car's magnet (it comes from relative motion)? Or both?

Just as in a regular rotating generator, the current that is induced in the coil generates a reverse magnetic field that opposes the field that is inducing the current. This makes a resistance to the motion of the exciting magnet. That's why there is resistance to rotation of a rotating generator, when there is a load connected to its output.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_generator

.
 
What if you put them at stop lights or freeway exits or similar places where people are slowing down anyway? It's not free energy, but would it be 'more efficient' energy?
 
DavidSnider said:
What if you put them at stop lights or freeway exits or similar places where people are slowing down anyway? It's not free energy, but would it be 'more efficient' energy?

I saw a segment on the BBC a while back where someone had designed a speed bump that "produced" energy, i.e. the energy that would normally be dissipated by breaking the car was somehow turned into electricity when the car drove over it.
I very much doubt it would be commercially viable, but it was a nice idea.

Also, there are already all sorts of techniques for recovering energy from cars that are slowing down, most(all?) hybrids use regenerative breaking which does exactly that.
 
DavidSnider said:
What if you put them at stop lights or freeway exits or similar places where people are slowing down anyway? It's not free energy, but would it be 'more efficient' energy?

In addition to f95's comments, remember that adding weight to a car requires burning more fuel. The speedbump idea would be more efficient, though not much fun for the cars.
 
Think about electricity as marbles in a tube- you push on the marble on one end, and almost instantly the marble on the other end moves. You could put a match box on the end of the tube and you can still easily push the marble- but it is a little harder to do, but that is work performed.

It is really the same thing, Voltage represents a difference in pressure (charge to be specific)- the pressure of electrons (and protons- but they aint budging, unless your talking about inside a plasma field (like a neon sign)) You have one wire with high pressure (dangerous) and one wire with low pressure (less dangerous and depending on design totally safe) but in reality they are both the same wire- just different ends.

When a magnet passes over say a coil a copper wire- that magnetic field pushes the electrons in the same direction. In the direction it travels becomes the side which is now under higher pressure. In order to make anything under pressure takes some oomph- and that oomph is energy required which will mean more gas is needed to drive the same distance at the same speed.

Then you have to factor in efficiency- a car is 20-30% efficient, it has to be able to operate in all sorts of ways- sometimes you have to hit the gas to get on the highway, sometimes you are backing out of your driveway- and you don't want to wait 2 hours for your car to warm up. A power generation facility is designed to run one way- optimally their engines are not changing rpms- there is no need for transmissions and other energy robbing but vital components for a car which is why they are closer to 80-98% efficient at producing power from fuel.

Also the amount of infrastructure in my opinion would NEVER pay off- by the time the system is rusted and falls apart it will not have produced more energy then it took to construct. Mining ore, refining ore, machining metal takes GREAT deals of energy.
 
Thanks to all.
 

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