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News Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 crash

  1. Mar 10, 2014 #1
    I think this is a very interesting story. Let's get some discussion on it!
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/10/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html

    At the moment CNN is reporting

    "Tickets linked to stolen passports for missing Malaysia flight were purchased by Iranian man, authorities say"

    If it were terrorism, what could be the motive? Who has a beef with the Malaysians?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 10, 2014 #2

    Vanadium 50

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    The plane was going to China. The Chinese government and the Uyghurs aren't exactly getting along - c.f. Kunming. And some of the Indonesian Islamist violence was led by Malaysians: the 2002 and 2005 Bali bombings, the 2003 and 2009 Djakarta Marriott bombings, and the 2004 Australian Embassy bombing.

    I have no evidence - but there are plenty of suspects.
     
  4. Mar 10, 2014 #3

    arildno

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    I wouldn't be too sure that just because somebody travelled with fake passports, then this must have been terrorists.

    Apart from the human tragedy involved , what I at present (not knowing if this was a malignant terrorist attack) find the most shocking is the revelation that, apparently, all the security measures are just sham, in particular, airport security do not even bother to check up passports against Interpol's lists of stolen passports.

    I'm sure criminals all across the world knows this, and are happily flying around the globe on stolen passports ALL THE TIME.
     
  5. Mar 10, 2014 #4
    I agree, there needs to be outrage. We all know airport security is just for show, but I still had faith in the passport side of things. In this day and age it shouldn't be difficult or costly to properly run passport checks.
     
  6. Mar 10, 2014 #5

    arildno

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    I'm sure there already exists a software that in the course of a few milliseconds would determine whether a particular passport was on the interpol alert list.

    Nor should it be difficult to institute an obligatory measure for airport security to regularly send in to some central authority traffic data over registered numbers of passport-dependent passengers versus computer registered checks on how many passports were actually checked. It should be easy to make this a wholly automated process.
     
  7. Mar 10, 2014 #6

    Borek

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    What sense does the terrorist attack make when it is not obvious it is a terrorist attack?
     
  8. Mar 10, 2014 #7

    arildno

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    Timer of bomb having been set too early, prior to planned broadcast of terror message??
     
  9. Mar 10, 2014 #8

    jim hardy

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    Any weather gurus here?
    This is supposed to be water vapor of the area at the time.

    http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/140307_coms1_wv_mh370_anim.gif
    click the link - image is too big...


    You just don't mess with thunderstorms that get up to 35,000 feet..

    Also in 2012 this happened to its wingtip.
    9m-mro.jpg
    courtesy http://airflightdisaster.com/index.php/9m-mro-fender-bender-long-before-flight-mh370/


    One hopes [STRIKE]fiberglass[/STRIKE] repairs are done by a trustworthy shop.
    (oops - i forget which models are plastic, which aluminum)
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  10. Mar 10, 2014 #9
    Could be a test run?
     
  11. Mar 10, 2014 #10

    arildno

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    Anyhow, the latest I've heard is that they are going to check through seismic data that would contain traces IF there was an explosion up in the air. (Some sort of registerable shock wave would have to have been generated in that case???)
     
  12. Mar 10, 2014 #11

    Borek

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    No idea about air explosions. But I do remember explosion on Kursk was registered by some seismographic stations near you (well, in Scandinavia, could be Sweden or Finland).
     
  13. Mar 10, 2014 #12

    DevilsAvocado

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  14. Mar 10, 2014 #13

    Borek

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    Perhaps reports from Scandinavia were just the first that hit the news here.
     
  15. Mar 10, 2014 #14

    DevilsAvocado

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    Yes probably, NORSAR apparently have lot of 'equipment' up there, arildno probably knows more about this.

    NOSAR_Kursk_sesmic_readings.png
     
  16. Mar 10, 2014 #15

    AlephZero

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    Sound travels through water with much less dispersion than through air - think whale songs, for example. There is also the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOFAR_channel effect.

    But there may be an equivalent mechanism in the upper atmosphere. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul
     
  17. Mar 10, 2014 #16

    arildno

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    Well, I dunno. It was a snippet I overheard on the public radio. Last I read, suspicion of terror is less marked now.
     
  18. Mar 10, 2014 #17

    mheslep

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    Exactly. Could have been, but the absence of some message at least after the fact argues against it.
     
  19. Mar 10, 2014 #18

    mheslep

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    That was TNT or a derivative, which doesn't require air and therefore can explode rapidly with a large shock wave. If explosive was smuggled on the plane it's unlikely it was more than a few kilos, and jet fuel requires an air mix thus burns relatively slowly without help.
     
  20. Mar 10, 2014 #19

    lisab

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    Wouldn't shallow water (~100 meters) reduce the distance that signals from "black boxes" can travel?
     
  21. Mar 10, 2014 #20
    How about signals before the aircraft disappeared?

    No explosion, at least no big explosion.


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/10/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140310

    We seem to be getting a lot of "a source said" type of statements.
     
  22. Mar 10, 2014 #21

    SteamKing

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    It's not clear what you mean by 'reduce the distance'.

    The flight recorders are equipped with a device which emits underwater pings at a constant rate. If a ship equipped with a hydrophone is nearby, the pings should allow for the location of the recorders.

    http://rjeint.com/pdf/DK120.PDF [Broken]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_locator_beacon

    The search for the debris from Air France flight 447 was so extended that the pingers had ceased functioning. Although a rough search area on the bottom of the Atlantic was determined by analysis of sonar data taken early in the search, the wreckage was located only after side-scan sonar was used to examine the ocean bottom and find the debris field, much like had been done when searching for the wreck of the Titanic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

    At least the searchers for the Air France jet had some clues as to where to look in the form of recognizable debris which search vessels found floating after the crash. In the case of Flight 370, these clues appear to be lacking.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
  23. Mar 10, 2014 #22

    AlephZero

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    People can do amazingly dumb things when flying planes. I once talked to a pilot working for a large UK company who flew freight aircraft, mostly night flights between the UK and Europe. One time, crossing the North Sea he suddenly became aware of a loud bang. ("Suddenly because aware" may or may not imply that he was asleep at the time - that piece of information might be self-incriminating!). Looking at the instruments, the altimeter was reading zero. Assuming the altimeter was faulty, he put the plane into a gentle climb, and then started to investigate. Finding nothing apparently wrong except the altimeter, when he had climbed about 10,000 ft he asked air traffic control to give him an altitude check, which said he was flying at .... 10,000 ft.

    He landed uneventfully at his scheduled destination, and walking round the aircraft discovered a large stain on the underside of the fuselage that looked rather like dried salt.

    His conclusion: for some unknown reason the autopilot had disconnected, he had gently descended to sea level, and by good luck the fuselage hit a wave before the engines did.

    Some you win, some you lose - find somebody happy to wash the salt off with a hosepipe for a small cash payment, and no incident report required :wink:

    (His co-pilot had no involvement in any of this - he was in the galley cooking their dinners).
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  24. Mar 11, 2014 #23

    Monique

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    According to Interpol in 2013 more than a billion travelers boarded an airplane, without their passport being compared to the SLTD database.
     
  25. Mar 11, 2014 #24

    arildno

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    Wouldn't most of those be, say, passengers on intra-state travels, or within regions not requiring passport identifications, such as within the EU?
    Or are those not included in the Interpol stats?

    Anyhow, Interpol has made a statement that they are inclined to believe this incident was NOT a terrorist attack; saying, for example, that the one travelling on the Austrian passport was trying to reach his mum in Germany.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/11/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
    As for the other one, travelling on "Luigi" passport, a Norwegian newspaper today has spoken with a man in Sweden, who says his cousin was seeking to get to Sweden, in order to seek asylum there.

    Fake passports for hopeful asylum seekers has become big business.
     
  26. Mar 11, 2014 #25

    Monique

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    This includes people traveling within Schengen countries, for instance. It does make a no-fly list quite useless, if flying with a stolen passport is something that remains undetected.

    Indeed, traveling with a stolen passport does not make one a terrorist.
     
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