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Mammoth Murderer Arrested!

  1. Jun 24, 2005 #1
    The Paleao Police has arrested the http://www.ormenlange.com/no/about_ormen/key_features/storegga_slide/ [Broken] this morning, accusing it of having caused the extinction of the woolly mammoth and other megafauna.

    The spokesman said not to comment at the moment but a press release will follow later today. He murmered something about double marmelade sandwiches first. :biggrin:

    The arrests ends a 206 year old quest that started with the discovery of the first full skeleton that was partly mummified at the discovery in 1799, the Adams Mammoth.

    our special paleao crime reporter reports
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 24, 2005 #2
    I hope Storegga had a good lawyer. Hmmm, double Marmelade, are you being bribed?
  4. Jun 24, 2005 #3
    Yes no doubt he has a good laywer who will explore the opinion-of-the-majority-of the-autorotive-scientist-must-be-true fallacy without any doubt. A guilty declaration has also to imply that the jury acknowledges that the evidence clearly indicates that it's beloved ice age theory and global warming idea are "fatally flawed".

    So it's very unlikely if he gets convicted at all.

    Anyway some background. You really need to read this to understand how excellent's Storegga alibi was until now. If the largest (by orders of magnitude) continental slope failure that caused the Storegga slide happened only in 8200 before past and the mammoths were exterminated around 10,000 before past, then how could he possibly be guilty. That question has bothered us for months. The suspects all seemed to have an alibi. But that of the Storegga slide was compromised finally. A very clever scam.

    BTW No doubt that the Storegga main event happened around 8200 Before past and no doubt that this is directly related to the Holocene cool event and alleged sudden melt pulses of glacial Lake Agassi that were actually effects from the resulting tsunami's. but how could that relate to killing the mammoth?

    Read Maslin and think clathrate and never forget: "non calor sed umor"

    More later.
  5. Jun 24, 2005 #4
    I can see how the movement of this much earth could upset the gas hydrate stability zone.
  6. Jun 24, 2005 #5
    So really large amounts of methane{clathrate}rose to the surface, and de-stabilized the earth causing{?} the Storegga Slide. But I take it it was much wider spread then we know. I mean, it was only in the last decade, we began to understand how much Methane{either frozen or trapped under the frozen} there really is.
    How much would it take to make a global event? My guess, its not as much as we think it would half to be.
  7. Jun 24, 2005 #6
    There you go. Exactly! The clathrate went first, destabilizing the sediments, which ultimately led to the collapse into the landslide. Jürgen Mienert found the smoking gun and gave us the vital golden lead that justified the accusation:

    We predict that narrowing down dating of "12.5–10 ka (calendar years)" will get us to 11,670 calender years, the almost exact border of the Younger Dryas with the Preboreal

    What would be the direct effect of an roiling sea loaded with methane with the size of a small country for hundreds, perhaps thousends of years? Releasing perhaps rough order of magnetude of 1000km^2 worth of clathrate that expands 150 fould or something like that.

    - Forced unnatural ocean flows (check the effect of the bubble stream in the fish tank), hey didn't the Thermahaline current shut down in that period or behaved it erratic?
    - Consequently, sea surface temperatures are not what they should be, sending warm surface water north and cool water south
    - How about effective increase of water surface enhancing evaporation, including the splash water.

    And of course the local strong enhanced concentration of methane as greenhouse gas.

    So a climate change and overnight is likely and with all that forced evaporation going on I would vote for a dramatic large scale increase in precipitation.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2005
  8. Jun 24, 2005 #7
    Not only could it of happened, it could happen again. I called a friend who knows more about the ocean currants than I, and he concurred{much like a el'nino} that water temps greatly increase storm activity, and flow of currants. So you could have massive hurricane like storms, in areas where they may not of occurred before.
    He also mentioned the ocean floor is pox holed with craters from eruptions of clathrate, methane.
  9. Jun 25, 2005 #8
    Yes it can happen again and it would have a far greater effect on climate than we think. And if Agassiz, who invented the ice ages in ~1833, had heard of clathrate, would he have had another explanation for ice ages? And how about Croll and milankovitch who invented the solar insolating forcing due to wobbles in the Earth cycles, if they only had known about it. And how about Arrhenius who greatly exagarated the CO2 greenhouse effect to further explain the ice ages? And Imbrie and Imbrie who thought that they had solved the mystery of the ice ages, tying oceanic isotopes to waxing and waning ice sheets.

    If the clathrate was discovered first, how would the explanation of the ice ages be? When we are looking at http://home.wanadoo.nl/bijkerk/Vostokamp.jpg [Broken] last 45,000 years, and we see the stunning correlation between layer height, (snow accumulation) and heavy hydrogen in the ice, then it would have been no problem to understand that those isotopes resemble the precipitation rate (modified by clathrate events). But unfortunately our thinking (tool)box was filled with ice ages, so we had to think temperature instead and ultimately global warming.

    Yes it can happen again, but apparantly, the real big ones like Storegga have a period of about 100,000 years if we assume that http://home.wanadoo.nl/bijkerk/dome-c.jpg [Broken] of the last million years are global scale clathrate events. So after Storegga ~11,000 years ago, we have 89,000 more years of worrying ahead.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  10. Jun 26, 2005 #9
    Anyway, to tie up loose ends, there is a lot more forensic evidence, like palynologic results, 13C isotope signatures, etc. Now, is there any jury out there who would require the presentation of the case?
  11. Jun 26, 2005 #10
    animal extinctions? why look for a scapegoat?

    The idea that we humans caused the mass extinction of large mammals around the world over 10,000 years ago has had a hard time because social theorists like to look down on hunters as NRA fanatics and down on the human race as a line of rotting flesh carron eaters who only steal food from other predators!

    Anyone remember how they went after Robert Audrey because he wrote a book about "The Killer Ape"? Audrey described us!

    Social theorists like to picture us as creatures filled with love and who can be molded by Marxist theory into utopian egalitarian communes! They think that if they lie about our polygynous and hunting nature, they can bring "peace to the world." They like to see little boys play with baby dolls so they grow up to be nice and peaceful little angels.

    It seems they really hate the human race!

    Lets get real! The Cro-magnon man was a master at heating stone cores and chipping off all kinds of very sharp blades. He had a religion that united myrads of hunting-gathering groups so they could cooperate in hunting down and trapping whole herds of animals. They chased them over cliffs, attacked them in streams and swamps, they paniced them with brush and grass fires. They had all sorts of strategems to kill big game in large numbers. They out hunted both the saber tooth carnivore and the Neanderthal. They mulitiplied and hunted until they had succeeded in wiping out whole species. Then, of course, our hunting age society population crashed.

    It was then that we began to take up agriculture to feed ourselves. The fun was over!

    P.S., the only reason we men are sports fanatics is that we love to chase that leather encased object. We like to kick it, smash it with a bat, and drive it with drivers. That is the "game." What other possible reason could we men have for running around chasing balls?

    http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com [Broken]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  12. Jun 26, 2005 #11
    Thank-you for these great posts Andre :smile: You have really done your homework, and have tied everything together very well.
  13. Jun 27, 2005 #12
    Thanks and You're welcome Hypatia, Now I have to figure out how to convince the world.

    Charles, interesting claims, have you any evidence to support that anthropocentric hypothesis? Since that is how justice works of course. No conviction without evidence beyond any reasonable doubt.
  14. Aug 31, 2005 #13
    http://www.mammothsite.com/CongressProgramDRAFT.pdf [Broken]

    For starters, check out Saturday 24 September 2:15 hours but it will get hard to squeeze years worth of study into 15 minutes.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  15. Sep 2, 2005 #14
    Preparing for the presentation I discovered that I could actually enter the article. Now remember, the Younger Dryas ended 11,670 years ago with a dramatic change in climate pertaining a large increase in precipitation, caused by clathrate destabilization of the Storegga slide area.

    Now lets see how accurate that date was:


    The link works for me. If not I’ll tell how to get there.

    Goto fig 3 and click to enlarge. See the dating of the large jump of the bottom water temperature?

    The prosecution rests.
  16. Sep 24, 2005 #15
    OK the case has been introduced formally to the jury as stated 2 posts ago.

    http://home.wanadoo.nl/bijkerk/BB.ppt [Broken] is the presentation for the World of Elephant congress in Mammoth Hot springs SD (note MS-office PPT XP version - animations may not function in older versions, let met know I can downgrade it)

    http://home.wanadoo.nl/bijkerk/Hot%20Springs.doc [Broken] explaining the slides.

    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  17. Sep 25, 2005 #16
    I can't open the bpp ext.for the slides :frown: But thought the presentation was very good.
  18. Sep 25, 2005 #17


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    I too can't see the slides (don't have any version of powerpoint at the moment) but I enjoyed reading the tetx. You make a good case.
  19. Sep 25, 2005 #18
    OK I'll try and have somebody convert the Presentation. The presentation was a great success BTW.
  20. Sep 26, 2005 #19


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    Good to hear it went well. I should be getting office installed soon so I look forward to seeing the slides.
  21. Sep 27, 2005 #20
    Still working on the presentation. However in the mean time have fun with another alternative hypothesis about the mammoth extinction.


    Although very shrewd, there are errors here. Who'll find them?
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