Maximum work done by a Carnot engine

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the maximum work done by a Carnot engine, focusing on the efficiency and thermodynamic principles involved in the operation of such an engine. Participants explore the relationships between temperatures, work, and heat capacities in the context of reversible processes.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the efficiency of the Carnot engine and question whether it remains constant during the process. There are attempts to derive relationships involving entropy changes and the implications of varying temperatures of the reservoirs.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights into the nature of the Carnot cycle and the implications of changing reservoir temperatures. Some participants express confusion regarding the application of efficiency equations, while others clarify that multiple Carnot cycles may be necessary to account for the changing conditions.

Contextual Notes

There is an acknowledgment that the temperatures of the reservoirs are not constant during the process, which affects the applicability of certain equations. Participants are navigating the complexities of the problem without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Pushoam
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Homework Statement


upload_2017-12-31_11-56-44.png


Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution

Taking the engine to be a Carnot engine,

## \eta = \frac { T_h – T_c } {T_h} = \frac { W} {Q_h} ## ...(1)

## Q_h = C(T_h – T_f) ...(2)

\\ Q_c = C(T_f – T_c) ...(3)

\\ W = Q_h – Q_c = C(T_h + T_c – 2 T_f) ## ...(4)Solving the above equations,

## T_f = \frac { 2T_c T_h }{T_h +T_c} ## ...(5)This solution does not lead me to any of the given option.

Is this correct?
 

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Does ##\eta## remain constant during the process?
 
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Algebraically, in terms of ##T_h##, ##T_f##, and the heat capacity C, what is the entropy change of the hot system?
 
TSny said:
Does ##\eta## remain constant during the process?
As I understand: ## \eta ## is not defined during a process. ## \eta ## is defined for a process. For a Carnot engine working between temperatures ## T_h ## and ## T_f ##, ## \eta ## is defined as ## \frac W{Q_h} ##. This is what I have used.

I am not getting the intention behind this question. Please give some more hint.
 
The entropy change of the hotter system is equal and opposite to that of the colder as it is a reversible process.

## dS = C \frac { dT } T ## ...(1)

## \Delta S_h = - C \ln \frac { T_h}{T_f} = - \Delta S_c = - C \ln \frac { T_f}{T_c} ## ...(2)

## T_f = \sqrt{ T_h T_c} ## ...(3)

## W = Q_h – Q_c = C(T_h + T_c – 2 T_f) ## ...(4)

## W = C(\sqrt{ T_h } - \sqrt{ T_c})^2 ## ...(5}

So, the answer is option (d).Why is using the efficiency equation not a correct step?

The engine is working between the two temperatures through a reversible cycle. So, it is a Carnot engine.

For calculating maximum work done, I have to take maximum efficiency. This is what I did in the OP.
 
Pushoam said:
The entropy change of the hotter system is equal and opposite to that of the colder as it is a reversible process.

## dS = C \frac { dT } T ## ...(1)

## \Delta S_h = - C \ln \frac { T_h}{T_f} = - \Delta S_c = - C \ln \frac { T_f}{T_c} ## ...(2)

## T_f = \sqrt{ T_h T_c} ## ...(3)

## W = Q_h – Q_c = C(T_h + T_c – 2 T_f) ## ...(4)

## W = C(\sqrt{ T_h } - \sqrt{ T_c})^2 ## ...(5}

So, the answer is option (d).Why is using the efficiency equation not a correct step?

The engine is working between the two temperatures through a reversible cycle. So, it is a Carnot engine.

For calculating maximum work done, I have to take maximum efficiency. This is what I did in the OP.
The temperatures of the two reservoirs are changing during the process. So you can't use the results for a single Carnot cycle with constant reservoir temperatures. You can't get from the initial state of this system to the final state reversibly with a single Carnot cycle. You need to use multiple Carnot cycles, each with slightly different pair of reservoir temperatures. And, for each of these multiple Carnot cycles, the efficiency is different.
 
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Chestermiller said:
The temperatures of the two reservoirs are changing during the process. So you can't use the results for a single Carnot cycle with constant reservoir temperatures. You can't get from the initial state of this system to the final state reversibly with a single Carnot cycle. You need to use multiple Carnot cycles, each with slightly different pair of reservoir temperatures. And, for each of these multiple Carnot cycles, the efficiency is different.
I didn't realize that the temperatures of the reservoirs are changing and the efficiency eqn is valid for constant reservoir temperatures even after solving the question.
Thanks for it.
 

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