Mechanical energy equation for flow b/n 2 points

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanical energy equation for fluid flow between two points, specifically from a creek to a tank. Participants explore the steady-state and unsteady-state conditions of the mechanical energy balance, considering factors such as pressure, velocity, elevation, and friction in the context of fluid dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the assumptions regarding velocity, suggesting that it may be reasonable to assume it is zero at the surface level due to the large size of the tank and creek.
  • There is a discussion about whether the pressure terms can be ignored since both points are at atmospheric pressure.
  • One participant proposes that the elevation difference should be included in the gz term but not counted twice in the energy equation.
  • Another participant introduces the friction term as a function of average velocity, pipe length, and diameter, indicating its relevance in the energy balance.
  • There is an exploration of how to express the mechanical energy equation in head form and the implications for taking time derivatives in the unsteady-state scenario.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the interpretation of part (b) of the problem, with one participant indicating difficulty in understanding the requirements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on some aspects of the mechanical energy equation but express differing views on the treatment of velocity, pressure, and the inclusion of terms in the equation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to model the unsteady-state conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their assumptions, particularly regarding the velocity at the surface and the treatment of pressure terms. There is also mention of unresolved mathematical steps related to the time derivative in the unsteady-state equation.

schmiggy
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Homework Statement


a) Write down the steady-state mechanical energy equation for flow from
point (1) (located at the free surface of the creek) to point (2) located at the free surface of
the tank. For the purposes of this problem you can assume the pressures at both points
are atmospheric.

b)The steady-state mechanical energy balance will still apply at every
moment of time if terms in the equation adjust much faster than changes in tank water
level. Under such conditions, the unsteadiness in Darcy’s system can be modeled by
taking the time derivative of both sides of the mechanical energy equation obtained from
Part 1. Write down this unsteady equation.

Homework Equations


Mechanical energy equation:
{\frac{\Delta P}{\rho}}+{\frac{\Delta V^2}{2}}+g\Delta z + Ws + F = 0 between two points.
Where v = average velocity, z = height, Ws = shaft work, and F = work done per unit mass against friction between points 1 and 2.

The Attempt at a Solution


So for part a) I'm not really sure what assumptions are reasonable given the attached diagram.

Can the V^2 term be canceled due to continuity? i.e. area is the same along the pipe and so velocity is the same?

The question also says that pressure is atmospheric at P1 and P2, so does the pressure term disappear as well? I would have thought we needed to include the weight force = \rho gz which increases as the pump transfers water from the creek to the tank, reducing the volumetric flow rate with time. So does it just mean we can ignore the atmospheric pressure component?

Also can \Delta z just equal z2, taking z1 as reference point? i.e. z1 = 0?

So would my equation look something like this?
{\frac{P_{atm}}{\rho}} = {\frac{(P_{atm} + \rho gz)}{\rho}}+z+Ws+F

Then the left hand side term disappears and would become:
0 = gz+z+Ws+F

I could then divide the equation by g to make the mech energy eq. in head form, allowing me to substitute {\frac{W_s}{g}} and {\frac{F}{g}} for others with more appropriate variables. E.g. Ws/g in terms of mass flow rate and actual power transferred. "g" would also disappear from the "gz" term.

But then I'm missing a time variable because the following step requires me to take the time derivative and I can't in its current form..

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks!
 

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attached diagram?

Chet
 
Sorry Chet - original post has been updated with the relevant diagram.

Thanks!
 
OK. Here are some thoughts:

1. The tank velocity is much lower than the velocity in the pipe. The two are related by the continuity equation. The velocities at points 1 and 2 need to be included. The velocity at point 2 is also the rate of increase of depth in the tank.

2. The difference in elevations should be included in the gz term. But shouldn't be included twice (as you did).

3. The ΔP is indeed zero.

Chet
 
Hi Chet, thanks again for the reply.

I've taken another look at the problem and my equation, can't we assume the velocity term is 0, because the points are taken at the surface level and we assume that the tank and creek are large enough that the surface velocity is unaffected by the flow?

The flow velocity is still considered, however as a part of the shaft friction term - i.e.:
F={\frac{2fL{V^2}}{D}}
Where f = fanning friction factor, V = average velocity, L = pipe length, D = diameter of pipe

So taking into consideration your above thoughts, my equation becomes:
g\Delta z+W_s+F=0
or
\Delta z+{\frac{W_s}{g}}+{\frac{F}{g}} = h_p

Then for part b) taking the time derivative, I think I should end up with:
{\frac{\partial z}{\partial t}} = - {\frac{\partial}{\partial t}}({\frac{W_s}{g}}) - {\frac{\partial}{\partial t}}({\frac{F}{g}})

Thanks again!
 
schmiggy said:
Hi Chet, thanks again for the reply.

I've taken another look at the problem and my equation, can't we assume the velocity term is 0, because the points are taken at the surface level and we assume that the tank and creek are large enough that the surface velocity is unaffected by the flow?
Yes. My mistake.

The flow velocity is still considered, however as a part of the shaft friction term - i.e.:
F={\frac{2fL{V^2}}{D}}
Where f = fanning friction factor, V = average velocity, L = pipe length, D = diameter of pipe

So taking into consideration your above thoughts, my equation becomes:
g\Delta z+W_s+F=0
or
\Delta z+{\frac{W_s}{g}}+{\frac{F}{g}} = h_p

Then for part b) taking the time derivative, I think I should end up with:
{\frac{\partial z}{\partial t}} = - {\frac{\partial}{\partial t}}({\frac{W_s}{g}}) - {\frac{\partial}{\partial t}}({\frac{F}{g}})

Thanks again!
Looks good. I must admit, I had trouble figuring out what they were driving at in part (b), but this looks like it is probably what they were looking for.

Chet
 

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