Mechanical motion VS thermal motion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concepts of mechanical motion and thermal motion, particularly in the context of how these types of motion relate to particle behavior at different temperatures, including absolute zero and the implications of zero-point energy.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that mechanical motion is ordered or coherent, while thermal motion is disordered or random.
  • There is a suggestion that zero-point energy is related to the energy of 'empty' space rather than the energy remaining in supercooled particles.
  • Questions arise about whether zero-point energy affects the motion of particles, with some arguing that quantum particles continue to move even at absolute zero.
  • Variational motion among particles is questioned regarding its orderliness, with some participants suggesting it is random but follows certain statistical trends.
  • One participant asserts that there is fundamentally only one type of motion governed by Newton's laws or quantum mechanics, challenging the distinction between thermal and mechanical motion.
  • Clarifications are made that reaching absolute zero does not imply particles have no energy, but rather that they are in their lowest energy state.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of mechanical versus thermal motion, the implications of zero-point energy, and the characteristics of variational motion. No consensus is reached on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as quantum fluctuations and statistical trends without resolving the underlying assumptions or definitions of motion types.

KFC
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Hi there,
I wonder if there is anything call mechanical motion(movement)? How does it compare to so called thermal motion? I know in microscopic area, particles are moving randomly due to thermal effect. If we call this thermal (Brownian) motion, so what's the name of motion of macroscopic object moving governed by Newton's law?

By the way, as we know, even we cool the object to 0K, there is still something called zero-point energy. So will particles move with zero-point energy? If so, how do we call this kind of motion (thermal motion is no longer suitable in this case, right?)
 
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The difference that comes to my mind is thermal motion is disordered or random, while mechanical motion is ordered or coherent.

Zero point energy, I believe, is not the energy left in a particle that is super cooled - it is the energy of 'empty' space, the vacuum.
 
Academic said:
The difference that comes to my mind is thermal motion is disordered or random, while mechanical motion is ordered or coherent.

Zero point energy, I believe, is not the energy left in a particle that is super cooled - it is the energy of 'empty' space, the vacuum.

So you mean the zero-point energy doesn't even affect the motion of particles?

By the way, what about the variational motion among particles? Is it ordered or disordered? Why?
 
KFC said:
So you mean the zero-point energy doesn't even affect the motion of particles?

I believe that zero point energy comes from the random motion of quantum particles.

Based on my understanding, quantum particles will continue to move even at 0k. However it is not possible to reach that temperature.
KFC said:
By the way, what about the variational motion among particles? Is it ordered or disordered? Why?

You mean is the motion random? As far as I know, yes. Quantum fluctuations are not ordered, but they do follow certain statistical trends. For example, heat generally does not go from a cold body to a warmer one. (This would require the application of work.)

As to the why... I'd also love to know.
 
KFC said:
Hi there,
I wonder if there is anything call mechanical motion(movement)? How does it compare to so called thermal motion? I know in microscopic area, particles are moving randomly due to thermal effect. If we call this thermal (Brownian) motion, so what's the name of motion of macroscopic object moving governed by Newton's law?
There is only one type of motion, namely the one governed by Newton's laws (or quantum mechanics if you want to be more precise).
"Thermal motion" is just molecules flying around like billard balls on the table. You might invent other terms like "circular motion", but fundamentally it's all the same.

KFC said:
By the way, as we know, even we cool the object to 0K, there is still something called zero-point energy. So will particles move with zero-point energy? If so, how do we call this kind of motion (thermal motion is no longer suitable in this case, right?)
0K does not mean the particle have no energy left. It only means all particles are in the lowest energy state. This lowest energy state might still have some energy left.
 

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