Metal bar on rails, induced emf

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a metal bar sliding down inclined rails in a magnetic field, focusing on the induced electromotive force (emf) and the dynamics of the system as it approaches terminal velocity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between gravitational force and electromagnetic force acting on the bar, questioning how to account for deceleration due to induced emf. They discuss the formulation of equations of motion and the implications of solving differential equations.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, raising questions about the forces involved and the mathematical relationships. Some guidance has been offered regarding the formulation of equations, but there is no consensus on the approach to take or the specifics of the functions involved.

Contextual Notes

There is uncertainty regarding the definitions and constants in the equations being discussed, as well as the application of differential equations, which have not been covered in the participants' coursework.

subzero0137
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A metal bar with length L, mass m, and resistance R is placed on frictionless metal rails that
are inclined at an angle α above the horizontal. The top end of the rails are connected with a
conducting wire. The resistance of the rails and wire are negligible. The rails are embedded in a
uniform magnetic field B perpendicular to the plane in which the rails sit. The bar is released from
rest and slides down the rails. Determine the magnitude of the induced emf on the loop after a generic time τ , shorter than the time required to reach the terminal velocity.

I know that |\epsilon|=\frac{d\phi}{dt}, where in this case d\phi=BdA=BL\frac{g}{2}sin(\alpha)\tau^{2} and dt=\tau, so |\epsilon|=BL\frac{g}{2}sin(\alpha)\tau. But it doesn't seem right to me because at some point, the bar will reach terminal velocity, which means the bar must be decelerating and I haven't taken that into account because I don't know how to. Any help will be appreciated.
 
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hi subzero0137! :smile:
subzero0137 said:
… the bar must be decelerating and I haven't taken that into account …

the acceleration will be less than gsinα

because the constant gravitational component of force is opposed by the velocity-dependent electromagnetic force :wink:
 
tiny-tim said:
hi subzero0137! :smile:


the acceleration will be less than gsinα

because the constant gravitational component of force is opposed by the velocity-dependent electromagnetic force :wink:


I see. But how would I account for that? Would the acceleration simply be gsin(α)-F(v)? I don't know what F(v) is...
 
subzero0137 said:
I don't know what F(v) is...

you have mx'' equals a function of x' …

write the equation out, and solve it! :smile:
 
tiny-tim said:
you have mx'' equals a function of x' …

write the equation out, and solve it! :smile:

Sorry, I'm confused now. Is mx'' the overall force? If yes, shouldn't it be mx''=mgsin(α)-F(x')?
 
subzero0137 said:
…shouldn't it be mx''=mgsin(α)-F(x')?

your RHS is a function of x' :smile:
 
tiny-tim said:
your RHS is a function of x' :smile:

Ohh, of course :-p

But when you say "solve it", do you mean solve the differential equation? Because my class hasn't solved diff equations of that form yet.
 
it's something like dv/dt = Av + B, or dv/(Av + B) = dt …

can you solve that? :smile:
 
tiny-tim said:
it's something like dv/dt = Av + B, or dv/(Av + B) = dt …

can you solve that? :smile:

It'll be (1/A)ln(Av+B)=t+C, but I don't know how to use that result in this question :confused:
 
  • #10
subzero0137 said:
Determine the magnitude of the induced emf on the loop after a generic time τ , shorter than the time required to reach the terminal velocity.

subzero0137 said:
It'll be (1/A)ln(Av+B)=t+C, but I don't know how to use that result in this question :confused:

(or Av+B = AoeAt)

that gives you v as a function of t, from which you can get the induced emf :smile:
 
  • #11
tiny-tim said:
(or Av+B = AoeAt)

that gives you v as a function of t, from which you can get the induced emf :smile:

But what are the constants A, Ao and B, and how does v as a function of t give me F(v)? Sorry if I'm being difficult, but I genuinely don't understand. Wouldn't F(v)=BIL, where I=BLv/R?
 
  • #12
write out the equation properly, and solve it (using v(0) = 0), and all that should become clear :smile:

(and now I'm off to bed :zzz:)​
 
  • #13
tiny-tim said:
write out the equation properly, and solve it (using v(0) = 0), and all that should become clear :smile:

(and now I'm off to bed :zzz:)​

Which equation, F=(v(BL)^2)/R or Av+B=Ao*e^AT? Before you go, can you please tell me what F(v) should be? I can't do other parts of the question if I don't get past this point...
 

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