Metallurgical questions about alloying of Sn with Cu/Ag/Au

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the alloying behavior of tin (Sn) with copper (Cu), silver (Ag), and gold (Au) in the context of electronics soldering. Participants explore the melting rates of these metals when introduced to molten tin, the conditions under which alloying occurs, and the implications for soldering applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that gold dissolves in molten tin very quickly, sharing an anecdote about a failed attempt to solder gold wire with regular solder.
  • Another participant mentions that copper alloys with tin, forming a Sn/Cu alloy that enhances bonding strength in soldering.
  • A participant expresses particular interest in silver's behavior in molten tin, indicating a lack of available information compared to copper and gold.
  • Phase diagrams for tin with various metals, including Cu, Ag, and Au, are referenced, suggesting similarities between tin-silver and tin-copper systems, while noting that gold behaves differently.
  • Questions are raised about the melting temperatures of the metals and whether there is a threshold temperature for alloying to begin.
  • It is suggested that the melting and alloying processes depend on phase diagrams and that diffusion can be analyzed using Fick's laws.
  • Discussion includes the idea that the phases formed during alloying depend on the concentrations of the metals involved and their respective phase diagrams.
  • Participants discuss the thermodynamic principles underlying phase diagrams, including Gibbs free energy and the factors influencing diffusion and alloying dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of certainty regarding the behavior of silver in molten tin, with some information being anecdotal and lacking consensus on specific details. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the comparative behavior of silver versus copper and gold in this context.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the reliance on anecdotal evidence for some claims, potential variations in alloy compositions, and the complexity of phase diagrams that may not be fully explored in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those involved in electronics soldering, materials science, and metallurgy, particularly in understanding the interactions between tin and various alloying metals.

Archie Medes
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Hi

My question relates to electronics soldering, where the main metal in the solder is Sn, with small amounts of Ag and/or Cu

If a rod of Cu, Ag, or Au is placed in molten Sn, which of the rods would melt away fastest?

Is there a threshold temperature up to which the solid metals won't melt/alloy? Or do they start alloying as soon as they are placed in the molten Sn?

For solid Cu or Ag, if some of the different metal is already alloyed with the molten tin, how will it change the alloying process?

And most importantly (for my curiosity), why?

Thank you,

Archie
 
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Gold dissolves in molten tin very, very quickly. Once, someone suggested to me to try a regular solder to attach a piece of a gold wire, didn't work, as soon as I touched the wire with the solder, it was all dissolved by the molten tin.
I don't know about silver.
Copper does alloy with tin. This is the basis for tin-based soldering of copper. It creates a region of Sn/Cu alloy and that helps creating a strong bond.
 
Thank you

I forgot to stress it is the silver I am most interested in, because I can't find information on it either, whereas gold and copper information (anecdotally at least) seems much more available.

Reason I ask is for fashioning custom soldering heads. I want to know how silver behaves compared to copper, and why. I am slowly collecting my own anecdotal data, but I don't have much soldering to do, and I'm curious about the chemistry/physics. Cu,Ag,Au fall under the same column in the periodic table, with Sn being on the middle row with silver, and something about silver requiring more energy to free electrons, but that is about all I've got.
 
Here is an article, phase diagrams of tin with various metals including Cu, Ag, Au. It appears that tin-silver diagram is very similar to tin-copper. Gold is much different.
http://iweb.tms.org/PbF/JOM-0212-45.pdf
 
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Thank you :)
 
If a rod of Cu, Ag, or Au is placed in molten Sn, which of the rods would melt away fastest?
-whichever has the lowest melting temp for a given composition

Is there a threshold temperature up to which the solid metals won't melt/alloy? Or do they start alloying as soon as they are placed in the molten Sn?
-they will melt at the melting temp and dissolve according to phase diagrams. diffusion can be calculated using ficks laws.

For solid Cu or Ag, if some of the different metal is already alloyed with the molten tin, how will it change the alloying process?
-the phases will depend on the phase diagram for the given concentrations.

And most importantly (for my curiosity), why?
-phase diagrams can be derived by evaluating gibb's free energy for given concentrations and temperatures, and finding the phase energetically favorable for the state of the system. the dynamics governed by ficks are related to activation energies (thermal drivers), concentration gradients (chemical potential) and other thermodynamic phenomena.
 
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