Metaphysics and something from nothing

In summary, the conversation discussed the concept of nothingness and its potential as a physical force with explosive properties. The idea of zero point energy was mentioned, but it has not been successfully harnessed yet. The conversation then shifted to a popular Chinese poem about nothingness and its paradoxical nature. The participants also touched on the idea of using paradoxes to expand our understanding of the world. Finally, there was a discussion about the possibility of getting a POV from above a paradox and the idea that infinity could be seen as an imitation of nothingness.
  • #36
Here Goes Nothingness

RingoKid said:
those 3 things are the way, the truth and the life that leads to the creator, though not in the order you stated but nevertheless...

accept NOTHING as fact
question everything
determine your own truth
define your own reality

be your own messiah...

...I AM are you ?

Hi there Ringokid,
HERE GOES NOTHINGNESS...!
How interesting you should bring up messiah. This is a beautiluf way of saying that we are all united in bringing in future understandings of peace and surrender to ""I AM", that I AM" Ein Sof, the (no end) (infinite light) before creation.
Question everything is the way to navigate the maze of visible darkness that hides the unifying truths from us. Not that we are not suppose to ultimately see and understand them, we are, I think, but as we collectively begin to use the physical knowledge we have to expose the non-physical underpinnings, we may begin to take the first steps to uniting the heart of the human family thus alimenting the lower vibration of anger, and violence, the color Red, and eventually function at the higher frequencies. This is how I understand the concept of the messiah to be an indication of which way the human family should be striving. Many traditions have placed an actual messiah on Earth and there are indictions that we may even have one on Earth in every generation. Still the same messiah different incarnations to fit the time and gently guide us a little closer to loving kindness. Perhaps one day we will, as a human family agree on an understanding that will allow us to hold on to this special person or perhaps we are a messianic generation to usher in these understanding that will aliminate and ahinalite the darkness that keeps us from experiencing nature in it's full excellence.

Perhaps there is NO G-d, which I think I understand G-d to mean when indicating where to look for him. But that is getting a little far ahead of ourselves...and way ahead of me in particular!
I believe messiah comes from the hebrew word Moshiach from which one can take the name Moshe or Moses, a deliverer, Messiah also is found to mean "anointed above all his fellows". This could mean a generation or a single person or a generation that will usher in a single person. I tend to accept all of the above.

NOTHINGNESS is recorded in the Talmud in connection with Moses (Moshe), one of the first deliverers in this way.
With out going into the particulars of the Talmud, it essentially states in tractate Berakoth 7a that G-d says to Moses, look at the back of your head and you will see my back.
So with that I ask all of us to look at the back of our heads and say what we can see. (No mirrors).
What we can see is NOTHING.
That's WHERE it is.
Now, I ask all of us is it possible to map this NOTHINGNESS, since we know where it is, to leave off the religion and philosophy, that which makes scientific researchers break out in hives and take the next step to revealing the supporting lights or dimensions of this physical universe?

Did not want to go here but what's done is done!
I want to be buried in Long Island for those of you who would want to do that to me.

And no I do not know who or what G-d is.
But I am beginning to feel the love. And again whatever that is.
Unhumbly...cause I will never reach humility...
S
 
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  • #37
If we are going to make progress understanding what nothing is, perhaps we need to start with understanding what things are. The standard model of QM gives us many clues, based on observation and measurement, and string theory gives us a model that unifies the particles in QM. So QM gives us information about how matter-energy behaves, and ST gives us an idea about why they behave that way. But we still have not approached an understanding of what, exactly, a string is.

What is vibrating? And what does it look like when it is not vibrating?

Any thoughts?

nc
 
  • #38
I think a "string" is a unit/particle of consciousness embedded in the mind of God and I reckon it looks like a figure 8 when it's not vibrating which coincidentally (or not) is the infinity sign...
 
  • #39
A Node?

RingoKid said:
I think a "string" is a unit/particle of consciousness embedded in the mind of God and I reckon it looks like a figure 8 when it's not vibrating which coincidentally (or not) is the infinity sign...
Hi RingoKid,
That is very interesting in that it would answer a question of where the information comes from that feeds into the physical superstring ideas.
How would the string of consciousness connect to the physical string? And what means you by referring to the mind of G-d, hence embedded therein.
Finally how brings you to conclude that the string somehow Twists? around to look like a figure 8? What happens at the intersection formed by the figure 8? An interface? A portal? A knot? A NODE? That's it A NODE! What happened to you? Someone hit you in the head with the Nobel Prize?
YO HO
S
 
  • #40
Hey Shoshana...don't mind me I'm just extreme speculating hoping for feedback

So anyway, I reckon from a figure 8 the cross over point would be the dimension of time which is the constant for strings as it determines the rate of vibration for without time there is no movement anywhere. We never see it as a figure 8 cos it is always vibrating and you can't stop time. If you broke a figure 8 up you can get sections that are closed, open, straight, closed with tails, even x shaped depending on which dimensions the string vibrates through or across but the minimum would have to be 2.

The real string and the conscious string are the same. We, it, everything is all embedded in the mysterious M-braned 11th dimension that essentially is the mind of god we could call it nothing with an awareness of itself but God gives it a sense of purpose as opposed to seemingly random fluctuations in a field of pure energy

Imagine the breeze blowing over a field of wheat. The wheat moves, we can't see the wind or predict it's behaviour but we register the effect of it on the field which incidentally is embedded in the ground.

gee i hope that makes sense. It would help if I was a magic ride and you could buy tickets to inside my head

...I and I is one
 
  • #41
RingoKid said:
Hey Shoshana...don't mind me I'm just extreme speculating hoping for feedback

So anyway, I reckon from a figure 8 the cross over point would be the dimension of time which is the constant for strings as it determines the rate of vibration for without time there is no movement anywhere. We never see it as a figure 8 cos it is always vibrating and you can't stop time. If you broke a figure 8 up you can get sections that are closed, open, straight, closed with tails, even x shaped depending on which dimensions the string vibrates through or across but the minimum would have to be 2.

The real string and the conscious string are the same. We, it, everything is all embedded in the mysterious M-braned 11th dimension that essentially is the mind of god we could call it nothing with an awareness of itself but God gives it a sense of purpose as opposed to seemingly random fluctuations in a field of pure energy

Imagine the breeze blowing over a field of wheat. The wheat moves, we can't see the wind or predict it's behaviour but we register the effect of it on the field which incidentally is embedded in the ground.

gee i hope that makes sense. It would help if I was a magic ride and you could buy tickets to inside my head

...I and I is one
Hi back RingoKido,
Are you suggesting intertwined sine waves that puts these nodes at regular intervals? Is that node a point of absolute time? The essence of time as it is on the beat. Simply asking: Which dimension can we find a portal to back into the higher dimensions. ( I think this last comment will attract a full blown assault on my unseasoned reasoning) But there you have it.
Signed,
Hopelessly Relentless
 
  • #42
uh yeah I think so ?

If at each point in 4d spacetime there are portals that enter into new dimensions and all connected to at least 5 others...

...as to which one, probably door number 11 but maybe to get there you'd have to try them all and all combinations there of. I reckon you'll only ever try the same combination once before they recombine to become a different "key" as it were. Only one special combo will unlock...

...the "gateway to dimension 11".

sounds like a b grade sci fi...eh ? but in short i don't know yet am having much fun thinking about it.

It'd kinda be like a playstation move on a fighting game where certain combos of buttons and directions give you a boss move that kicks serious ass

...hyaaaaah
 
  • #43
And a metaphysical precept

RingoKid said:
Hey Shoshana...
gee i hope that makes sense.
It would help if I was a magic ride and you could buy tickets to inside my head
...I and I is one
Hi again Ringokid,
I and I is one...do you mean to say You and You are one? Or that 1 and 1 are 1, which in both cases you would be correct in the metaphysical/spiritual sense. Right?
You and you would be one in BOTH the physical and non-physical sense but one and one in the spiritual sense would be one also because in the upper realm, CLOSENESS is is SAMENESS, hence cow and cow =1, 6 and 6 =1.
To conclude, if a person wants to become ONE with the higher realms they divest themselves of the ego attempting to get as close to nothingness as possible.
Nothing with Nothing = Nothing
Across the board.
S
 
  • #44
RingoKid said:
uh yeah I think so ?

If at each point in 4d spacetime there are portals that enter into new dimensions and all connected to at least 5 others...

I reckon you'll only ever try the same combination once before they recombine to become a different "key" as it were. Only one special combo will unlock...

...the "gateway to dimension 11".

sounds like a b grade sci fi...eh ? but in short i don't know yet am having much fun thinking about it.

...hyaaaaah
I'm having fun too! But as children play they unlock secrets that the adults are to conditioned to see.
I am convinced that the dimensions DO go through a continual realignment. Not sure this means that different combinations are needed to unlock the mechanisms because nature always keeps one step ahead of our investigation. By understanding the unfolding process, we can continue to predict some small amount of the revealed outcome.
I believe most of nature will remain covered simply because an abrupt revelation would overwhelm us and we would not survive. Perhaps because we will experience a kind of joy that our current state of awareness is not accustom to such light or truths.
Light, Light... turn down the light!
One could get a bad sunburn.
S
 
  • #45
nonsense+experience=subjective insight

brain exercise and will for existential play,
there is there is not, there could be a way,
imagination is here or was just then,
but who's to say that nothing is real?
certainly anyone in my mind, as anyone in my mind is real, or unreal if logic is depended upon, oh what a thought, or a crystallisation!
as a mind collects the strings, the sense is made more believable,
not to say correct, but then truth to ones self is a start, no?
dimensions collide as eyes meet in the street,
(not one to trust the first glance, but always open to novelty.)
feelings towards or back are crucial too and crucial can't be proven,
but here and now, although never static, starts to remind me of a pen,
and the digital keys take over in their dash for balance, hurting the brain and its friends underneath, working in unison, without them knowing it (?),
any one else for that matter, which physically do not exist but of course still exist somewhere else, could probably tell one the same thing in a different way,
a way that is an interest of mine, maybe it is energy. at least this word will do, as it demonstrates time/matter in flux, many ugly ducks but wise they are may join and may get white and higher like that which grows green but is not eaten by cows!

ha ha...ridiculous {i say out loud, wondering whether or not to send this very post}
:smile:
 
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  • #46
magus niche said:
brain exercise and will for existential play,
there is there is not, there could be a way,
imagination is here or was just then,
but who's to say that nothing is real?
certainly anyone in my mind, as anyone in my mind is real, or unreal if logic is depended upon, oh what a thought, or a crystallisation!
as a mind collects the strings, the sense is made more believable,
not to say correct, but then truth to ones self is a start, no?
dimensions collide as eyes meet in the street,
(not one to trust the first glance, but always open to novelty.)
feelings towards or back are crucial too and crucial can't be proven,
but here and now, although never static, starts to remind me of a pen,
and the digital keys take over in their dash for balance, hurting the brain and its friends underneath, working in unison, without them knowing it (?),
any one else for that matter, which physically do not exist but of course still exist somewhere else, could probably tell one the same thing in a different way,
a way that is an interest of mine, maybe it is energy. at least this word will do, as it demonstrates time/matter in flux, many ugly ducks but wise they are may join and may get white and higher like that which grows green but is not eaten by cows!

ha ha...ridiculous {i say out loud, wondering whether or not to send this very post}
:smile:
A little chiken soup maybe? And some rest. Hope you feel better.
 
  • #47
yes good advice, the chaos within ones own mind aint always pretty. :uhh:
re: ringo my mind ride/virtual reality game would be of a horriffic nature complemented (hopefully!) by a sublime clarity later on...an up and down rollercoaster with non-violent balance combined with love of all being the ultimate goal?


whisper whisper winds move an essence natural but beyond our comprehension. time to meditate. :zzz:
 
  • #48
hello people, there are some things that should be left alone for time to sort out, i can be one of those things.

with the questions of universality and unified truths, especially concerning nothingness, i have been contemplating thoroughly. to me, though i am constantly updating my own philosophy, at this point, i reckon there may not be any 'universal truths' (outside what is directly observable), UNLESS, we construct them. many people will obviously find issues with this, and that is the point of debate.

so, do we, should we, could we, construct or attempt to construct universalities? hmmm...am i avoiding responsibility? i mean, i could rattle on for ages with scribbles of thoughts etc. like the poem i posted earlier but that seems to deaden the room somewhat! :smile:

so by being more intelligable (not that this is a necessity), i am attempting here to reconstruct the debate about whether the persuit of knowledge of the unknowable/nothingness should have a unified direction, or whether it should continue as it is in a chaotic system where no rules apply.

can rules be placed on something so personal such as mind/soul/identity? all of which i would include in my curriculum of the unknowable.
 
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