Modelling forces acting on a sail

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around modeling the forces acting on a sail, specifically in the context of wind sails used in sailing vessels. Participants explore various approaches to create a basic model, including the representation of wind as vectors and the implications of adding multiple sails. The conversation touches on both theoretical and practical aspects of modeling in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests starting with a simple model where wind is treated as a single force acting on a uniform body.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to study aerodynamics, noting that sails function similarly to airfoils, particularly in how they interact with wind.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about how to model the wind as vectors and mentions the relevance of differential equations in this context.
  • There is a suggestion that for practical modeling, it may be sufficient to consider the overall force vector applied to the sail rather than the detailed mechanics of wind interaction.
  • One participant clarifies that their interest in the project is more about re-developing modeling and simulation skills rather than completing a homework assignment.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of understanding the forces acting on sails but have differing views on the level of detail required for the modeling. Some emphasize a broader approach while others suggest a more detailed analysis.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for a solid understanding of differential equations and aerodynamics, but there are unresolved questions about the specific modeling techniques and assumptions regarding wind behavior and sail interaction.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in sailing dynamics, aerodynamics, or those looking to enhance their modeling and simulation skills in a practical context.

cbarrett
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Hi all.

I'd like to create a basic model of the forces acting on a sail (wind sail, like a tail ship)

A couple of things I was thinking about:
1) can create a very simple model where wind is 'one' force acting on the a uniform body.
2) model wind as vectors. This is where I am a little confused on how to start.
3) adding in multiple sails.

Any pointers?

I'm not looking for someone to actually do the modelling for me, just a place to start. Like maybe some Wikipedia articles, etc.

Thanks
Chris
 
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Sails (proper sails that is) are airfoils so you need to study aeroplane wings.

Sails as most people think of them (e.g. Viking Longship) operate in the stalled condition and are very inefficient.
 
Thanks for the reply. I'm really looking for a starting point. I know that this would be a differential equation but after that I can't really see how it would be modeled.

This isn't a homework question. I'm looking at this out of interest. Its been a few years since I worked in differential equations and modelling math problems so any help or starting points are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Do you really need to know exactly how the wind is pushing on the sails to such a fine degree? From your 3rd point (adding in multiple sails) it sounds like you are trying to design a craft of some sort, maybe?

In which case it seems more important to know how hard, and in what direction, the wind is pushing on the sail in total. At that broadest level, you can just draw the incoming wind vector, the outgoing (after interaction with sail) wind vector, and the difference between the two is the force vector applied to the sail (which will be divided - unequally I think - between the mast and wherever the main sheet connects with the boat)
 
So, it doesn't need to be so fine. It just a hobby/interesting project I've chosen.

I'm really trying to re-develop my modeling/simulation skills.

I was hoping someone who might have done something like this before could start me off.
Thanks
 

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