Modular Arithmetic: 8^7 ≡ (-5)^7 (mod 13) and (25)^3 ≡ (-1)^3 (mod 13)?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Inviction
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Arithmetic
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around modular arithmetic, specifically examining the equivalences 8^7 ≡ (-5)^7 (mod 13) and (25)^3 ≡ (-1)^3 (mod 13). Participants are exploring the implications of these equivalences and their validity in the context of modular operations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand why certain powers of numbers are equivalent under modulo 13, questioning the general behavior of powers in modular arithmetic. Some participants point out that since 8 is congruent to -5 and 25 is congruent to -1 modulo 13, it follows that their powers would also be equal. Others express surprise at this property and seek clarification on the rules of modular arithmetic.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing insights about the nature of equivalences in modular arithmetic. Some have provided examples and explanations that clarify the relationships, while others are still grappling with the concepts and seeking further understanding.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original poster is particularly interested in the behavior of odd versus even powers in modular arithmetic and how these relate to the characteristic of the field.

Inviction
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
I have a simple question:

Why does 8^7 ≡ (-5)^7 (mod 13) and (25)^3 ≡ (-1)^3 (mod 13)?

In essence I want to show that 8^7 + 5^7 = 13^7, so that both sides of the equation ≡ 0 (mod 13) and therefore 8^7 ≡ (-5)^7 (mod 13).

I know that in a field of characteristic p>0, (x + y)^p = x^p + y^p, but the problem here is that the exponent is 7, not 13.

I also noticed that the equation works for odd integers but not even ones, i.e., 8^3 ≡ (-5)^3 (mod 13), 8^5 ≡ (-5)^5 (mod 13), etc.

Can anyone help me out here? Thanks.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
8 is equal to -5 mod 13. 25 is equal to -1 mod 13. Why is it surprising their powers would also be equal?
 
Dick said:
8 is equal to -5 mod 13. 25 is equal to -1 mod 13. Why is it surprising their powers would also be equal?

Oh wow thanks, that was totally not intuitive for me for some reason, but I see it much more clearly now. I just started doing modular arithmetic and never realized the same rules still apply. I guess "≡ (mod n)" is the same as "=" as far as any calculations are concerned?
 
Inviction said:
Oh wow thanks, that was totally not intuitive for me for some reason, but I see it much more clearly now. I just started doing modular arithmetic and never realized the same rules still apply. I guess "≡ (mod n)" is the same as "=" as far as any calculations are concerned?

Sure. If a=b mod n then a^k=b^k mod n for any k. That's not true for ANY operation. But it's true for the operations that respect mod arithmetic.
 
F13 is a field like R or C. When it comes to =, +, -, *, brackets, -1 it behaves exactly the same. There is no need to work with 'mod' or what so ever.

Running code below in http://magma.maths.usyd.edu.au/calc/ returns '0'.

Code:
F := FiniteField(13);

eight := F ! 8;
five:= F ! 5;
thirteen := F ! 13;

eight  ^7 + five ^7 - thirteen ^7;
 
Last edited:
Outlined said:
F13 is a field like R or C. When it comes to =, +, -, *, brackets, -1 it behaves exactly the same. There is no need to work with 'mod' or what so ever.

Running code below in http://magma.maths.usyd.edu.au/calc/ returns '0'.

Code:
F := FiniteField(13);

eight := F ! 8;
five:= F ! 5;
thirteen := F ! 13;

eight  ^7 + five ^7 - thirteen ^7;

That's a pretty strange response. Are you saying the only way to understand relations in Z_13 is to run magma?
 
Dick said:
That's a pretty strange response. Are you saying the only way to understand relations in Z_13 is to run magma?

no but if you are not in the mood to do manual computations you can use that website.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K