More details on transient response

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of transient response in electronic systems, specifically focusing on first and second order systems. Participants explore the definitions, characteristics, and mathematical descriptions of these responses, as well as the terminology used in the context of damping and modes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe transient response as the short-lived component of a circuit's output that occurs when power is switched on, which eventually settles into a steady-state response.
  • It is noted that second order systems can exhibit oscillations in their transient response, while first order systems are characterized as slower and do not oscillate.
  • Examples, such as a moving coil voltmeter, are provided to illustrate the behavior of second order systems during transient response.
  • Participants express a desire for mathematical equations that describe transient response modes, indicating that these equations are likely first and second order differential equations.
  • One participant questions the use of the term "mode" in relation to first and second order systems, suggesting it may relate to degrees of damping (under-, critically-, or over-damped), but expresses uncertainty about the terminology.
  • Another participant suggests that the original poster could clarify their lecture notes to help others understand the term "mode" better.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic definitions of transient response and the characteristics of first and second order systems. However, there is disagreement regarding the terminology of "modes" and its relation to damping, with no consensus on its meaning or application in this context.

Contextual Notes

There is uncertainty regarding the specific mathematical equations that describe transient response modes, as well as the definitions and implications of the term "mode" in this context. Participants express confusion about their lecture notes and seek further clarification.

Noway
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Hi guys
I just stepped into the electronic fields, I have some problems confusing me a lot

I read my lecture notes but I was confused by a term transient response modes

From my lecture notes, it describe this term in linear/first order and second order system
But I'm still confused
Like what are all those response about

And I do believe that they are related to my previous learning
Like we can describe all those modes by some mathematical equations
So what are those equations?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi Noway! http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5725/red5e5etimes5e5e45e5e25.gif
When you switch power to a circuit, that circuit responds with a short-lived ('transient') component in its output but this dies away and leaves you with just the forced response that you can attribute to the input.

A second order system can have oscillations in its transient (short-lived) response, and these die away leaving you with the output you were expecting. A first order system is just a bit slow to respond, or a bit sluggish, but it can't oscillate.

A good example is a moving coil meter, say a voltmeter. When you connect it to a battery to measure voltage, does the needle swing beyond its final position then oscillate back and forth a bit before settling on the final reading? If so, that is typical of a second order response. (Though not all second order responses necessarily do oscillate like that, they potentially can.)

The equations are first order differential equations, and second order differential equations. A google search will find you plenty of information to remind you, if you have previously studied these.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NascentOxygen said:
Hi Noway! http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5725/red5e5etimes5e5e45e5e25.gif
When you switch power to a circuit, that circuit responds with a short-lived component in it output that dies away, and then leaves you with just the forced response caused by the input.

A second order system can have oscillations in its transient (short-lived) response, and these die away leaving you with the output you were expecting. A first order system is just a bit slow to respond, or a bit sluggish, but it can't oscillate.

A good example is a moving coil meter, say a voltmeter. When you connect it to a battery to measure voltage, does the needle swing beyond its final position then oscillate back and forth a bit before settling on the final reading? If so, that is typical of a second order response. (Though not all second order responses necessarily do oscillate like that, they potentially can.)

Thank you mate
I'm now clear with the definition of this term and some realistic examples

How about the mathematical equations for the transient response modes?
I do believe there are some equations to describe all those modes?

I have some info on my lecture notes but they are not clear enough for me
The lecture notes say that there are several modes to describe the transient response
Would you mind telling me what are those modes and how I can describe them mathematically?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Noway said:
The lecture notes say that there are several modes to describe the transient response
Would you mind telling me what are those modes and how I can describe them mathematically?
Sorry, I can't, as I do not associate the word "mode" with anything to do with 1st or 2nd order systems. Possibly it may be to do with the degrees of damping, whether under-, critically-, or over-damped, but in neither mathematics or engineering do I recall "mode" associated with damping, either.

I'll have to leave that for someone else to address, or you could try google. Perhaps your lecture notes might offer a further clue?
 
NascentOxygen said:
Sorry, I can't, as I do not associate the word "mode" with anything to do with 1st or 2nd order systems. Possibly it may be to do with the degrees of damping, whether under-, critically-, or over-damped, but in neither mathematics or engineering do I recall "mode" associated with damping, either.

I'll have to leave that for someone else to address, or you could try google. Perhaps your lecture notes might offer a further clue?

Thank you dude anyway
I tried google but can't find them
the lecture notes confused me a lot T.T
 
I meant if you were to post an excerpt from your lecture notes it might offer some reader here a clue as to what mode relates to.
 
123123123123
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Homogenous Solution Represents the Transient Response Right?
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
Engineering Question - Calculating Coefficients for 2nd Order Transient Analysis
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Sketch waveform to represent the transient response
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
12K
BIBO/Stable Systems: True/False Q&A on Homogenous & Particular Solutions
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Engineering Solving Transient Circuit Equations for v_C(t)
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
Engineering Step response and realiziability of a G(q) transfer function
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Engineering How Can Laplace Transforms Be Used to Analyze Circuit Transient Responses?
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
6K
Engineering Impulse Response of an RLC Circuit
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
6K
Learning How to Use an Oscilloscope for Transient Response Experiments
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Engineering Voltage Drops in Transient RL Circuits
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K