Motion of a bullet inside a barrel

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    Bullet Motion
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the motion of a bullet inside a barrel, focusing on the mechanics involved when a bullet is accelerated by gas pressure. Participants explore the equations of motion, considering factors such as pressure, volume, and the behavior of an ideal gas during the bullet's travel down the barrel.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines a problem involving a bullet in a barrel, seeking to derive equations of motion (x(t), v(t), a(t)) based on the pressure difference caused by an ideal gas behind the bullet.
  • Another participant suggests that, with constant temperature and gas amount, pressure should be inversely proportional to the volume behind the bullet, proposing to calculate the force exerted on the bullet as it moves.
  • A different participant notes that even for an ideal gas, the temperature decreases as the gas expands, which could affect pressure more significantly than the expansion rate, referencing real-world measurements in ballistics.
  • One participant introduces the concept of adiabatic expansion, stating that the rapid chemical reaction leads to heat release before significant bullet movement, and provides a relationship involving pressure and force on the bullet.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effects of gas expansion and temperature changes on pressure, indicating that there is no consensus on how these factors influence the bullet's motion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to model the situation.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention assumptions such as no friction, constant temperature, and negligible drag forces, but the implications of these assumptions on the overall model are not fully explored or agreed upon.

elegysix
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I've spent the last hour or so googling this, and couldn't find anything straightforward. I thumbed through my thermo book and didn't come up with anything either. So I figured I'd ask you guys. I think this is a simple mechanics problem. I had been thinking about this last night, and figured it should be simple enough - I'm just getting stuck on the math somewhere I think.

Problem: Suppose there is a bullet of a given mass in a barrel at some initial position, with some initial volume and pressure of an ideal gas enclosed behind it. Then at some instant the bullet is allowed to accelerate due to the difference in pressures across the bullet. How do you find the equations of motion of the bullet ~ x(t), v(t), a(t) ? (x for position)

Assumptions: no friction between the bullet and barrel, and the bullet makes a perfect seal with the barrel. The temperature of the barrel is constant. The amount of gas is constant. Drag forces are negligible.

I can post my attempted solution if you guys want me too.

Thanks,
Austin
 
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PV = nrT.

If the amount of gas is constant, and assuming temperature is constant, then the pressure should be inversely proportional to the volume of space behind the bullet. So, as the bullet travels down the barrel, the pressure should drop off. My guess is that you should assume that the bullet has some radius "a" and work out the amount of force exerted on the bullet as it travels the length of the barrel. From this you can easily work out the appropriate results.
 
Even in the case of an ideal gas, as that gas expands, it's temperature will decrease, reducing the pressure at a greater rate than the rate of expansion. In the real world, the math is based on the results of previous measurments made with real guns and bullets (do a web search for internal and external ballistics).
 
elegysix said:
I've spent the last hour or so googling this, and couldn't find anything straightforward. I thumbed through my thermo book and didn't come up with anything either. So I figured I'd ask you guys. I think this is a simple mechanics problem. I had been thinking about this last night, and figured it should be simple enough - I'm just getting stuck on the math somewhere I think.

Problem: Suppose there is a bullet of a given mass in a barrel at some initial position, with some initial volume and pressure of an ideal gas enclosed behind it. Then at some instant the bullet is allowed to accelerate due to the difference in pressures across the bullet. How do you find the equations of motion of the bullet ~ x(t), v(t), a(t) ? (x for position)

Assumptions: no friction between the bullet and barrel, and the bullet makes a perfect seal with the barrel. The temperature of the barrel is constant. The amount of gas is constant. Drag forces are negligible.

I can post my attempted solution if you guys want me too.

Thanks,
Austin
The chemical reaction is very fast so the heat is released before the bullet has barely begun to move. What follows is essentially an adiabatic expansion (since it happens so quickly, there is very little heat flow from the gas).

The adiabatic condtion applies here: [tex]PV^\gamma = K[/tex] where [itex]\gamma = C_p/C_v[/itex]. The pressure x cross-sectional area of the barrel = the force on the bullet = mass x acceleration. So:

[tex]\ddot{x} = PA/m[/tex]

See if you can work out the rest from that.

AM
 

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