My professor takes manual attendance for 150+ students

[PhizKid]

So at the beginning of every lecture, my professor calls out our names one by one to take attendance because attendance/participation is 15% of our grade, even though there are over 150 registered students in this lecture hall.. :(

 

[dlgoff]

Maybe he should set up a RFID Reader on his podium and have everyone pass by it instead.

 

[WWGD]

How long does that take? Assuming 5 seconds per name, including the in-between, that is more than 10 minutes.

 

[ZombieFeynman]

Seems like a waste of time. Out of curiosity, how old is your professor?

 

[phinds]

Perhaps that's his way of protesting that he has to teach such large classes.

 

[WWGD]

Perhaps that's his way of protesting that he has to teach such large classes.

But why make the students pay, even if that is the reason the prof is doing that? I doubt it is their fault . If I was going to take a class with someone whom I knew did that, I would ask everyone in the class to change their name into a much longer one, like Joseph Robert Andrew Lorenzo Charles Jackson-Garcia D'Angelo. That should put the prof. out of breath after around 30 names.

 

[PhizKid]

How long does that take? Assuming 5 seconds per name, including the in-between, that is more than 10 minutes.

I haven't been able to time it because no cell phones are allowed in class and I don't have a watch. But I am able to review the entire day's lecture by the time he finishes, which is sort of good I guess so I can familiarize myself with the material beforehand (even though I do it before every lecture anyway).

Seems like a waste of time. Out of curiosity, how old is your professor?

Around 40 maybe?

 

[berkeman]

Maybe he should set up a RFID Reader on his podium and have everyone pass by it instead.

Better yet, put together that system (or barcode, or whatever is on your student IDs), and give it to him as a present (& extra credit project).

 

[ZombieFeynman]

Another option that he has is to ask clicker questions in class.

 

[PhizKid]

Another option that he has is to ask clicker questions in class.

I doubt our destitute school would ever approve of funding that, even if it was for one class. We can't even afford projectors for our lecture halls

 

[256bits]

But why make the students pay, even if that is the reason the prof is doing that? I doubt it is their fault . If I was going to take a class with someone whom I knew did that, I would ask everyone in the class to change their name into a much longer one, like Joseph Robert Andrew Lorenzo Charles Jackson-Garcia D'Angelo. That should put the prof. out of breath after around 30 names.

Would a ten minute snap quiz to hand in at the end of the lecture be a waste of student time or being making them pay? Professor could evaluate the quizes as 15% of grade.

I don't see how sitting for 10 minutes and waiting is a waste of time, Make the best of it.

 

[ZombieFeynman]

Would a ten minute snap quiz to hand in at the end of the lecture be a waste of student time or being making them pay? Professor could evaluate the quizes as 15% of grade.

I don't see how sitting for 10 minutes and waiting is a waste of time, Make the best of it.

Because at least a ten minute quiz at the end seems like it motivates the students to study or pay attention. This is ten minutes of sitting listening to names being called. I think this is almost objectively a waste of everyone's time.

 

[256bits]

Because at least a ten minute quiz at the end seems like it motivates the students to study or pay attention. This is ten minutes of sitting listening to names being called. I think this is almost objectively a waste of everyone's time.

This is all a subjective argument about waste of time.

If the professor would start the class 10 minutes later, without a role call, the students would then be in a position to make "better" use of that ten minutes. Would they?

I think it is nitpicking on what this one professor does, since all of the other professors do not.
If role calling was standard for all classes, the argument would go away.

One waits for the bus, the doctor, the line-up in the bank, the taxi, the traffic, the red light.
A measly ten minutes for role call seems hardly something to gripe about.

 

[Jorriss]

How many lectures has he done this for?

 

[davenn]

How long does that take? Assuming 5 seconds per name, including the in-between, that is more than 10 minutes.

well considering there's only a ~ 15% attendance/participation probably not very long to count at all

Dave

 

[jim hardy]

Look on the bright side.

Now when you pass her in the quad you can say "Hello miss "?" " to that beautiful girl who sits a couple rows ahead of you.

Good luck.

Y8AuCrUJWQI [/youtube] old jim

 

[ZombieFeynman]

This is all a subjective argument about waste of time.

If the professor would start the class 10 minutes later, without a role call, the students would then be in a position to make "better" use of that ten minutes. Would they?

I think it is nitpicking on what this one professor does, since all of the other professors do not.
If role calling was standard for all classes, the argument would go away.

One waits for the bus, the doctor, the line-up in the bank, the taxi, the traffic, the red light.
A measly ten minutes for role call seems hardly something to gripe about.

And if the class lasts an hour they are wasting 13% of the class on calling roll. Instead, if they used that time to lecture, the students would receive (conservatively) at least 10% more lecture from the professor. Presumably the students are paying for lecture time from the professor and so this guy is wasting their money. Other professors don't call roll because it's a stupid idea that has no place in a college classroom.

 

[Travis_King]

This is all a subjective argument about waste of time.

If the professor would start the class 10 minutes later, without a role call, the students would then be in a position to make "better" use of that ten minutes. Would they?

I think it is nitpicking on what this one professor does, since all of the other professors do not.
If role calling was standard for all classes, the argument would go away.

One waits for the bus, the doctor, the line-up in the bank, the taxi, the traffic, the red light.
A measly ten minutes for role call seems hardly something to gripe about.

I agree with ZombieFeynman, this is not a good argument.

What about 11 minutes? 12? 20?

Students are paying money to go to lectures and be taught. The professor is there to instruct, not to babysit. I understand the idea of ensuring students are there (and in university I had professors do this with quizzes or clicker questions), but to waste 10 minutes or more of class time calling role? No, that is a waste of the students' time and money.

What to do about it? I don't know, probably nothing, just learn to deal with it. Sometimes there are crummy situations in life which you can't do much about.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

attendance/participation is 15% of our grade

What?? How on Earth does that make sense! 15% would jump your grade where I'm from and you get that just for turning up?!

 

[CAF123]

Another option that he has is to ask clicker questions in class.

My uni used to do this for the first years to count the attendance at the lectures. While the electronic clicker system is still in operation, they no longer take attendance because they found that students would give the clickers to their peers to register attendance for them. It confuses me that people go to such a bother. Surely by uni stage you have developed an interest for your subject and are mature enough to not care for these 'canny' tactics?

 

[PhizKid]

I guess this is just what happens when you perform poorly in secondary school and are forced to matriculate in a low-tier college after being rejected everywhere else. Even my admissions counselor at my current institution asked me twice if I was sure I wanted to attend this school because she said she's never seen anyone with such a high GPA even apply to this school before, which surprised me because even a 4.0 at a community college around here is not that difficult to achieve and I thought everyone pretty much had around the same grades.

I accept my punishment though, and I try to make the best of the situation even though the course options are severely limited due to low faculty numbers and all the classes occur at the same time, everyone treats you like a grade-schooler, and we even have the yellow schoolbuses that I had to ride back in elementary/middle/high school. I think we are the only college around that uses them, lol.

 

[edward]

It could be worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7FixvoKBw

 

[PhizKid]

It could be worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7FixvoKBw

Pretty good

 

[CAF123]

It could be worse.

lol, that was funny.

 

[WWGD]

I guess this is just what happens when you perform poorly in secondary school and are forced to matriculate in a low-tier college after being rejected everywhere else. Even my admissions counselor at my current institution asked me twice if I was sure I wanted to attend this school because she said she's never seen anyone with such a high GPA even apply to this school before, which surprised me because even a 4.0 at a community college around here is not that difficult to achieve and I thought everyone pretty much had around the same grades.

I accept my punishment though, and I try to make the best of the situation even though the course options are severely limited due to low faculty numbers and all the classes occur at the same time, everyone treats you like a grade-schooler, and we even have the yellow schoolbuses that I had to ride back in elementary/middle/high school. I think we are the only college around that uses them, lol.

Why don't you get good grades for a couple of years and then apply somewhere else?

 

[StatGuy2000]

During my time at university, the only time that attendance was ever part of the grading was during tutorials, because it's during these times that assignments or quizzes were submitted.

I knew some professors did add a participation component in the grading system, but this only applied to relatively small classes, but this was also certainly not the norm.

 

[PhizKid]

Why don't you get good grades for a couple of years and then apply somewhere else?

I've already accumulated enough credits to graduate with a bachelor's next year. I think it is a bit too late/schools won't accept such late transfers.

 

[dipole]

My uni used to do this for the first years to count the attendance at the lectures. While the electronic clicker system is still in operation, they no longer take attendance because they found that students would give the clickers to their peers to register attendance for them. It confuses me that people go to such a bother. Surely by uni stage you have developed an interest for your subject and are mature enough to not care for these 'canny' tactics?

The other view is that surely by uni stage you're mature enough to decide whether you want to go to class or not, or if you need to or not. There's been plenty of classes where I'd have been much better off skipping lecture and just reading the material on my own.

 

[SteamKing]

So at the beginning of every lecture, my professor calls out our names one by one to take attendance because attendance/participation is 15% of our grade, even though there are over 150 registered students in this lecture hall.. :(

Maybe if your school was on the leading edge of technology and personal expression, your prof could check everyone's attendance using this:

 

[256bits]

And if the class lasts an hour they are wasting 13% of the class on calling roll. ... classroom.

I agree with ZombieFeynman, this is not a good argument.

What about ... in life which you can't do much about.

That's 2 to 1 .
If I was the professor, I would still win, professor vote worth a majority of 51%..
:)

 

[thegreenlaser]

The other view is that surely by uni stage you're mature enough to decide whether you want to go to class or not, or if you need to or not. There's been plenty of classes where I'd have been much better off skipping lecture and just reading the material on my own.

Agreed. I don't usually skip classes, but the freedom to do so hasn't been hurtful. I'm an adult, I'm paying for the lecturer to be there whether I attend or not, and I'm perfectly capable of deciding whether it's worth skipping class or not. If I'm foolish and I skip class when I shouldn't, then I waste my money and get bad grades.

A lot of real world jobs are similar. My internship was quite flexible: nobody cared whether you got in at 7 am or 9 am, or whether you took off for a couple hours to do something personal like meet a friend for lunch. As long as you put in your hours, got your work done, and showed up to meetings you committed to, everyone just trusted that you were an adult who could make reasonable decisions. If you didn't get your work done because you were always coming in late and leaving early, nobody was going to start babysitting you. You would just get warned and eventually fired.

It's just part of being an adult: you get more freedom, but it's your responsibility not to abuse that freedom.

(Also, 10 min attendance out of every 50 min lecture is pretty ridiculous. If you're paying $500 for the class, that means you're paying $100 to just sit and study. It's not really wasted time, it's wasted money.)

 

[pasmith]

The obvious low-tech solution, which has been in use in every course I've been on where attendance is part of the grade, is "Here is an attendance sheet. Put your name on it or you will be deemed not to have been present."

EDIT: And indeed the only such course was the Bar Vocational Course, and the Bar Standards Board had imposed the requirement that if you failed to attend, or arrived sufficiently late for, more than some specified number of sessions then you failed the course.

 

[JonDE]

Just wanted to throw this out there. I'm attending a junior college right now and the policy there is that all classes have mandatory attendance. The rule is supposed to be 5 absences and you are dropped, although all the professors I have, have stated that as long as you give a reason they won't drop you. But, every one of them takes attendance every day.

 

[jz92wjaz]

In a freshmen class I took, we passed around an attendance sheet, and kids just had their friends sign for them. The nice thing about taking attendance is that it gives the teacher a chance to learn names. After the teacher knows names, i would much prefer a brief quiz in each class if attendance has to be taken.

 

[Psinter]

Your professor must have the patience of a turtle. I would just pass the list and have everyone put their initials on it next to their names.

EDIT: A Bluetooth module at the entrances could also work if everyone has a smartphone. An application in the smartphone would identify itself with the Bluetooth module at the doors and show you whether you have been registered as present or not (or even late).

 

[Medicol]

When I was young, I hated attendance check by my professors. I skipped or dropped those elective classes. And those that were compulsory to take were just a real pain to endure coming in on time. Later in life I've realized no matter how much freedom or what types of work I am offered, I need to finish any within a given time-frame I or some else already set up for me to trade for money, for food and for joy. Also, being quite attentive during someone's performance is a good sign of showing one's respect. Things you have to always remember are that there are no such subjects or courses requiring students to take that are not a programmed part of your major; students usually don't see how important they are until later, which is why I think they need to be pro-active in their communication with their professors or related associates to understand why they should take the course and to eliminate such behaviors or misunderstandings as not to be so lazy for classes.

 

[ZombieFeynman]

That's 2 to 1 .
If I was the professor, I would still win, professor vote worth a majority of 51%..
:)

Sure, and I think the students have largely no option. That's the beauty of being the professor, you get to implement whatever inefficient, asinine policies you want. It doesn't mean it's the most educational modus operandi.

 

[PhizKid]

I brought a watch today and timed it. It was just under 15 minutes; 14 minutes and some seconds change.