Need help doing force calculations with magnetism (between magnets)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the forces between a permanent magnet and an electromagnet, exploring various conditions and configurations. Participants seek to understand the interactions in terms of magnetic field strengths, geometries, and the implications of uniform versus non-uniform fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to calculate the forces between a permanent magnet and an electromagnet, expressing confusion over existing resources.
  • Another participant notes that the force depends on factors such as field strength, distance, permeability of the medium, and geometry, complicating straightforward calculations.
  • A suggestion is made to simplify the scenario by assuming linear magnetic fields and specific parameters for the electromagnet, but the complexity of real-world applications is acknowledged.
  • One participant proposes a theoretical scenario involving the Earth's magnetic field and questions the feasibility of measuring forces in such a context.
  • There is a claim that in a uniform magnetic field, the net force on a loop of wire is zero, although torque may still exist to align the coil with the field.
  • Another participant challenges the idea of zero force, questioning the implications for electromagnets and generators, and explores scenarios involving magnetic poles facing each other.
  • Further elaboration on the uniformity of the magnetic field is provided, with emphasis on the implications for force interactions.
  • One participant expresses frustration over the discussion, emphasizing the importance of clarity in scientific inquiry and proposing to split the question into two parts for better understanding.
  • Participants discuss a hypothetical scenario involving a drone with an electromagnet and its interaction with the Earth's magnetic field, raising questions about movement and torque.
  • There is a reiteration of the initial question regarding the force between a permanent magnet and an electromagnet, with some suggesting that while there may be torque, the net force could be zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and nature of forces between electromagnets and permanent magnets, particularly in uniform fields. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the calculations and implications of magnetic interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of real-world magnetic interactions, including the dependence on geometry and the assumptions made about uniformity and field strength. The discussion reflects a range of theoretical scenarios that complicate straightforward calculations.

  • #31
CCatalyst said:
How does that relate to this particular case?
It doesn't. You had also asked about how refrigerator magnets work, and my answer was to that specific question.
CCatalyst said:
Also I realize that other materials can interfere with magnetic fields and seem to block them out. Fro example, I've seen magnets where they attach to a filing cabinet or refrigerator you can see the sticker on the side facing you, usually with an advertisement on it. Flip it around however, it falls like a rock. So what is going on in that case

CCatalyst said:
All I'm asking is are there other materials besides superconductors that can deflect magnetic fields the same way the meissner effect does?
My understanding is the meissner effect is exclusive to superconductors. A superconductor is rendered nearly perfectly diamagnetic by virtue of the meissner effect, however, a wide range of diamagnetic materials exist.
 
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