Need Help Integrating This Tricky Integrand

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the length of curves defined by parametric equations. Participants are working with integrals involving square roots of polynomial expressions, specifically focusing on the modulus of the derivative of the position vector.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss different methods for integrating expressions, including attempts to simplify integrals by completing the square and considering trigonometric substitutions. There are questions about the validity of certain transformations and the handling of constants within the integrals.

Discussion Status

Some participants have shared their attempts at numerical evaluation, while others are exploring different integration techniques. There is a mix of confidence and uncertainty regarding the methods being applied, with some participants seeking clarification on specific steps and transformations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express confusion over the integration process, particularly with respect to completing the square and applying trigonometric substitutions. The problems are noted to be part of a series that is expected to be straightforward, raising questions about the participants' understanding of the material.

royblaze
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Find the length of the curve:

r(t) = <2t, t2, (1/3)t3>
r'(t) = <2, 2t, t2>

From bounds of t: 0 to 1.

So length = integral of the modulus of r'(t):

Integral of sqrt(t4+4t2+4)

I'm just dead stuck on how to attack it. I tried to make it integral of sqrt((t2+2)2), and then just getting rid of the square, but I'm feeling intrinsically unsure that that way will work.

Would setting a u = t4 help at all?

Any help is appreciated!
 
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royblaze said:
Find the length of the curve:

r(t) = <2t, t2, (1/3)t3>
r'(t) = <2, 2t, t2>

From bounds of t: 0 to 1.

So length = integral of the modulus of r'(t):

Integral of sqrt(t4+4t2+4)

I'm just dead stuck on how to attack it. I tried to make it integral of sqrt((t2+2)2), and then just getting rid of the square, but I'm feeling intrinsically unsure that that way will work.

Yeah, sure, try it that way!
 
I tried it and got a numerical value. So, I guess it's alright then.

Is it too much to ask for help on a different one? It's in the same form.

r(t) = <12t, 8t3/2, 3t2>
r'(t) = <12, 12t1/2, 9t>

Bounds of t = 0 to 1

Integral of sqrt(122 +(12t1/2)2 + (9t)2)dt

= integral sqrt(144 + 144t +81t2)dt.

I'm really just baffled; these are problems 1-10, which are technically supposed to be pretty simple. Am I just missing a glaringly easy way to integrate these things?
 
royblaze said:
I tried it and got a numerical value. So, I guess it's alright then.

Is it too much to ask for help on a different one? It's in the same form.

r(t) = <12t, 8t3/2, 3t2>
r'(t) = <12, 12t1/2, 9t>

Bounds of t = 0 to 1

Integral of sqrt(122 +(12t1/2)2 + (9t)2)dt

= integral sqrt(144 + 144t +81t2)dt.

I'm really just baffled; these are problems 1-10, which are technically supposed to be pretty simple. Am I just missing a glaringly easy way to integrate these things?

Try to complete the square here. Prepare for a trigonometric substitution.
 
I'm having trouble after completing the square. I don't remember too much about trigonometric substitution... :(

I factored out the 81, to move a constant out:

9 * (integral of sqrt(t2 + (16/9)t +16/9))

So I took the square of half of 16/9:

9 * (integral of sqrt([t2 + (16/9)t + (64/81)] + 80/81))

9 * (integral of sqrt((t+(8/9))2 + 80/81)

EDIT: And just for questioning's sake; the bounds are from 0 to 1, so I'm guessing the answer itself shouldn't be hard to compute?
 
Factor out 80/81 and set

[tex]\tan^2{u}=\frac{81}{80}(t+\frac{8}{9})^2[/tex]
 
It might be the energy drink crash I'm getting here, but I don't see how the 80/81 can be factored out...

Sorry :/
 
[tex]\sqrt{x-a}=\sqrt{a}\sqrt{\frac{x}{a}-1}[/tex]

Do something like this.
 
So I get

a = 80/81

sqrt(a) * (sqrt((t + 8/9)2)/a + 1)

I can't see how the sqrt goes away. Was I supposed to change the sign in b/t the binomal squared term and the 1?
 
  • #10
Now make an appropriate trigonometric substitution. Substitute tan in.
 
  • #11
Do you mean in the sense of the derivative of arctan? (1/(1+x2))?

If I substitute tan in,

u = tan(t+(8/9))2,

Is this the correct substitution? It seems different from yours.
 
  • #12
Ah ha! I found it. By factoring out scalars from the vectors, I made my life a ton easier.

I found it out after consulting my textbook.

Thanks though :)
 

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