Need help with a proof involving points on a quadratic

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that for three points on a positive definite quadratic curve, the middle point's value is never higher than at least one of the other two points. Participants explore the mathematical reasoning behind this assertion, focusing on the properties of quadratic functions and their derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a positive definite quadratic equation and seeks a formal proof that the middle point is not higher than the other two points.
  • Another participant discusses the behavior of the quadratic's derivative, suggesting that the position of the middle point relative to the absolute minimum influences which of the other two points is guaranteed to be higher.
  • A later reply reiterates the importance of the absolute minimum and proposes a structured reasoning based on the derivative's sign to support the claim.
  • Further contributions explore the generality of the proof, suggesting that the reasoning applies to any quadratic with a positive coefficient for the x² term.
  • Participants consider the implications of the middle point being at, to the left of, or to the right of the absolute minimum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of confidence in the proposed proof, with some agreeing on the reasoning while others seek further clarification or additional statements to solidify the argument. The discussion remains unresolved regarding whether the presented reasoning constitutes a complete proof.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proof relies on the properties of the quadratic function and its derivative, but there are unresolved aspects regarding the completeness of the argument, particularly concerning the case when the middle point is exactly at the absolute minimum.

Jeff.Nevington
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Given three points on a positive definite quadratic line, I need to prove that the middle point is never higher than at least one of the other two.
Summary: Given three points on a positive definite quadratic line, I need to prove that the middle point is never higher than at least one of the other two.

I am struggling to write a proof down for something. It's obvious when looking at it graphically, but I don't know how to write the proof succinctly.

I have a positive definite quadratic equation:

y= (αx + φ)^2+x^2;
where x and y are the axes, and α and φ are real constants (could be positive or negative), so y is always ≥0.

If I choose three values of X: x_a, x_p, x_b, these will correspond to three values of y: y_a, y_p, y_b.
If x_a ≤ x_p ≤ x_b, it is obvious, visually on the curve that y_p ≤ y_a OR y_p ≤ y_b. Unfortunately I need something more robust than "obvious visually". Does anyone know how I would go about writing a mathematical proof for this?
IMG_20191002_095331.jpg
 
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Your parabola has an absolute minimum (you can find it but you don't need to), its derivative is negative for smaller x-values and positive for larger values. If the middle point is to the left of the absolute minimum, which point is guaranteed to be larger (in y) than the middle point? If the middle point is to the right of the absolute minimum, which point is guaranteed to be larger than the middle point? What if the middle point is at the absolute minimum?
 
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mfb said:
Your parabola has an absolute minimum (you can find it but you don't need to), its derivative is negative for smaller x-values and positive for larger values. If the middle point is to the left of the absolute minimum, which point is guaranteed to be larger (in y) than the middle point? If the middle point is to the right of the absolute minimum, which point is guaranteed to be larger than the middle point? What if the middle point is at the absolute minimum?

Thank you, so I can write:

let x_m be the x value at the absolute minimum;
for x_p ≥ x_m and for x ≥ x_p; dy/dx ≥ 0, hence y_b ≥ y_p as x_b ≥ x_p;
for x_p ≤ x_m and for x ≤ x_p; dy/dx ≤ 0, hence y_a ≥ y_p as x_a ≤ x_p;

I think these two cover everything and I don't necessarily need a 3rd statement considering only x_p=x_m?

Does the above qualify as a proof?
 
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Jeff.Nevington said:
Thank you, so I can write:

let x_m be the x value at the absolute minimum;
for x_p ≥ x_m and for x ≥ x_p; dy/dx ≥ 0, hence y_b ≥ y_p as x_b ≥ x_p;
for x_p ≤ x_m and for x ≤ x_p; dy/dx ≤ 0, hence y_a ≥ y_p as x_a ≤ x_p;

I think these two cover everything and I don't necessarily need a 3rd statement considering only x_p=x_m?

Does the above qualify as a proof?
It must be true for any quadratic with positive coefficient of ##x^2##. We can write:

##y = ax^2 + bx + c = a[(x - b/2a)^2 + k]##

For some constant ##k##.

We can see that ## y(x_1) > y(x_2)## iff ##(x_1 - b/2a)^2 > (x_2 - b/2a)^2##.

Now consider the cases where the middle point is greater or less than ##b/2a##.

That, it seems to me, gets at the heart of the matter.
 

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