Non homogeneous density in a gas

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of non-homogeneous density in a gas contained in a volume, particularly in the context of microcanonical ensembles. Participants explore whether the assumption of constant density, as seen in models like the Van der Waals equation, is justified and how factors such as gravity and energy exchange with walls might influence the average density and position of gas atoms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the justification of assuming constant density in gas models and asks if atoms tend to cluster near the walls or in the middle of the container.
  • Another participant references a specific equation from a PDF that indicates that in equilibrium, with constant temperature and chemical potential, the number density of the gas is constant, suggesting that overdense and underdense regions do not occur.
  • A different participant mentions the radial distribution function, indicating that the assumption of homogeneous density is often not justified and that the true density of a Van der Waals gas is not constant across the gas.
  • Some participants express appreciation for the resources shared and indicate a willingness to engage with complex materials to better understand the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the justification of the constant density assumption, with some supporting it under certain conditions while others argue against it, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the assumptions made in gas models, particularly regarding the treatment of density and the conditions under which these models apply. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in understanding the behavior of gases in different contexts.

JamesWolf
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Hi, have searched around but can't find what I am looking for (probably because I am not entirely certain what its called)

An elemental gas in a contained volume, say microcanonical for simplicity, will have atoms that bounce against the walls. Is there an equation for the average density of the gas with respect to position?

Everywhere I see (such as Van der Walls equation) presumes a constant density across the volume. Is this simplification justified? Or do atoms on average hang by the walls, or in the middle?
Presumably in a more complicated system, gravity included, they hang closer to the bottom. If we allow energy exchange between the walls and the gas, will this average position change? Speed is related to the temperature kT, is this position also?

Pointing me in the right direction on this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
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See section 3.5: http://www.pma.caltech.edu/Courses/ph136/yr2011/1103.1.K.pdf

Clearly from eq. (3.37a) if the gas (which may consist of multiple components) is at equilibrium, meaning constant temperature and constant chemical potential, then the number density is also constant.

This is reasonable. Eq. (3.37a) is derived assuming the particles are non-relativistic, classical, free particles so that their occupation number obeys the Boltzmann distribution ##\mathcal{N} = \frac{g_s}{h^3}e^{(\mu - p^2/2m)/k_B T}## and as such, given the isotropy and lack of interactions of significant time scales (meaning collisions don't matter) there is no reason there would be overdense regions and underdense regions of the gas in the volume.
 
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Thanks for answering me, ill have a read of the pdf :)
 
JamesWolf said:
Pointing me in the right direction on this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
See, radial distribution function.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_distribution_function

In general, it depends on what you want to do, but no the assumption is often not justified. Infact, to get the van der waals equation one has to enforce homogeneous density. As the radial distribution function corresponding to a van der waals gas is not the same as for an ideal gas, the assumption is not exactly right and one can easily show the true density of a van der waals gas is not constant across the gas.
 
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great thanks, this is the kind of thing I was looking for. The earlier pdf is thick reading for me, but ill get there.
 
JamesWolf said:
The earlier pdf is thick reading for me, but ill get there.
You certainly should. WBN introduced those notes to me too and they are very informative.
 

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