Nuclear explosion in space x-rays hit atmosphere.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of a nuclear explosion in space, specifically focusing on the behavior of x-rays as they interact with the Earth's atmosphere. Participants explore the dynamics of particle acceleration, the scattering of x-rays, and the implications of distance from the blast on radiation exposure. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and technical details related to particle physics and radiation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that electrons, being lighter, would receive more energy from x-ray photons compared to ions due to their ability to scatter these photons more effectively.
  • There is a suggestion that the blast wave would exert pressure on ions, but the density of the blast front decreases with distance, specifically noted as 1/r³.
  • One participant questions the interpretation of the blast front and the relationship between distance and x-ray dose, suggesting that doubling the distance should reduce the dose by a factor of four.
  • Another participant discusses the nature of x-rays as a transversal electromagnetic field, indicating that while the average velocity of boosted particles may be in the direction opposite the blast, the transverse components of velocity would average to zero.
  • Technical details are provided regarding the absorption cross section of photons and the directional distribution of photoejected electrons, with references to specific literature for further understanding.
  • There is a discussion about the momentum of the x-ray beam and how it relates to the momentum of electrons and ions, with some participants expressing uncertainty about the implications of scattering and polarization effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effects of x-ray scattering and the dynamics of particle acceleration, with no clear consensus reached on the specific outcomes of these interactions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved questions about the exact nature of the blast front and its effects, as well as the complexities of x-ray scattering and its implications for particle momentum.

Spinnor
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Suppose we set off a nuclear weapon 400 km above the surface of the Earth. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime

When the x-rays hit the atmosphere what gets the greatest velocity boost, electrons or ions?

Can we assume the averaged velocity of all boosted particles is in the direction opposite the blast?

Thank you for any help.
 
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Electrons being lighter would scatter gamma/x-ray photons and receive more energy than ions. The blast wave would apply some pressure on the ions.

However, realize that the blast front density rapidly decreases with 1/r3.
 
Astronuc said:
Electrons being lighter would scatter gamma/x-ray photons and receive more energy than ions. The blast wave would apply some pressure on the ions.

However, realize that the blast front density rapidly decreases with 1/r3.

Thanks, though I'm not clear on the last sentence. The blast front is well(?)... the front of the blast? X-rays lead the race followed by electrons and ions? And if I double my distance from the blast I should halve my x-ray dose? What is it that goes as 1/r^3?

Thanks again!
 
Spinnor said:
Thanks, though I'm not clear on the last sentence. The blast front is well(?)... the front of the blast? X-rays lead the race followed by electrons and ions? And if I double my distance from the blast I should halve my x-ray dose? What is it that goes as 1/r^3?

Thanks again!

If I double my distance from a source (point like) I should reduce my dose by 1/4.
 
Spinnor said:
...When the x-rays hit the atmosphere what gets the greatest velocity boost, electrons or ions?

Can we assume the averaged velocity of all boosted particles is in the direction opposite the blast?

1) Electrons are lighter and easier to displace.

2) The averaged - yes but keep in mind that an X-ray is a transversal electromagnetic field. It makes charges oscillate in the transversal to the propagation direction. As a result, the charges will obtain transversal and longitudinal vectors of velocity. The averaged transversal components give zero, the longitudinal remain.
 
Last edited:
Bob_for_short said:
1) Electrons are lighter and easier to displace.

2) The averaged - yes but keep in mind that an X-ray is a transversal electromagnetic field. It makes charges oscillate in the transversal to the propagation direction. As a result, the charges will obtain transversal and longitudinal vectors of velocity. The averaged transversal components give zero, the longitudinal remain.
The plots of the absorption cross section of photons below 100-200 KeV show a large increase above the Thomson -scattering cross section, due primarily to deep-core photoejection of bound atomic electrons. There is a plot in Evans, "The Atomic Nucleus", (page 696) showing the directional distribution of photoejected electrons as a function of photon energy varying from about ~60 degrees max at 20 KeV to ~15 degrees at 511 KeV. On the same page it states that the "photoelectrons tend to be ejected in the direction of the electric vector of the incident radiation."
Bob S
 
Bob_for_short said:
The plots of the absorption cross section of photons below 100-200 KeV show a large increase above the Thomson -scattering cross section, due primarily to deep-core photoejection of bound atomic electrons. There is a plot in Evans, "The Atomic Nucleus", (page 696) showing the directional distribution of photoejected electrons as a function of photon energy varying from about ~60 degrees max at 20 KeV to ~15 degrees at 511 KeV. On the same page it states that the "photoelectrons tend to be ejected in the direction of the electric vector of the incident radiation."
Bob S

Which should average to zero(?) perpendicular to the beam as the x-rays have equal probability for all polarizations(?).

If this "beam" of x-rays scatter into all directions then the initial momentum of the x-ray beam is greater then the final summed momentum of the scattered x-rays, this momentum difference shows up in the momentum of the electrons and ions with the average momentum in the direction of the beam, as you stated above?.

Thank you for your time!
 
Posted by Bob S
The plots of the absorption cross section of photons below 100-200 KeV show a large increase above the Thomson -scattering cross section, due primarily to deep-core photoejection of bound atomic electrons. There is a plot in Evans, "The Atomic Nucleus", (page 696) showing the directional distribution of photoejected electrons as a function of photon energy varying from about ~60 degrees max at 20 KeV to ~15 degrees at 511 KeV. On the same page it states that the "photoelectrons tend to be ejected in the direction of the electric vector of the incident radiation."

Spinnor said:
Which should average to zero(?) perpendicular to the beam as the x-rays have equal probability for all polarizations(?).
Probably not. Low energy x-rays come from electrons hitting high-Z targets and creating bremsstrahlung, and the x-rays are largely polarized at 90 degrees at low energies. See Heitler, "Quantum Theory of Radiation", 3rd edition, pgs 244-245.

If this "beam" of x-rays scatter into all directions then the initial momentum of the x-ray beam is greater then the final summed momentum of the scattered x-rays, this momentum difference shows up in the momentum of the electrons and ions with the average momentum in the direction of the beam, as you stated above?.
!
Deep-core photoejection and the photoelectric effect absorb the entire energy of the incident photon. There are no scattered x-rays. Compton scattering (and Thomson scattering), usually dominant above ~100 KeV, both have scattered x-rays.
Bob S
 

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